r1150, regulator recommendations

[n00b 0f l337]

Currently I'm looking at getting a hydrogen regulator when I pickup my ethylene bottle. I've read many of you are using hydrogen regulators, how do you swap the nut over to mount? What thread do I need?

[cold_ice]

I don't know if it's the same in the US, but here the thread is the same. I use a hydrogen regulator as well.

[n00b 0f l337]

The hydrogen regulator has the same nut? Hmmm, thanks cold_ice, you are the gas man :) Now if only I could get r14.

[kayl]

h2 for sure.

[[486]]

most flammable gasses have very simalar thread thingies, but if they arent the same the connection to the regulator is 1/4 npt, at least on the 50 or so high-pressure regulators ive seen. the tank to regulator adaptor can be bought separately for $5-25

[runmc]

You will need a " CGA 350 adaptor" that will screw onto the ethylene tank. I use a nitrogen regulator. I take out the stem and fitting that goes on the nitrogen bottle and screw the stem and cga 350 adaptor into the nitrogen regulator. I found a shop that repairs regulators locally and picked up the cga 350 adaptor there.

NOL - do be extra careful with the ethylene

[n00b 0f l337]

NOL - do be extra careful with the ethylene
Will be :)

[runmc]

Only add 1150 when system is shut down and everything (entire system) is at ambient temperature.

"Static Charge with complete unit off and at ambient temp"

Be sure and use a regulator - bottle pressure will blow the face out of guages :eek:

[n00b 0f l337]

Yup, classic rule. And it was Sham who almost took a gauge to the face if I remember correctly.

[Unknown_road]

Yup, classic rule. And it was Sham who almost took a gauge to the face if I remember correctly.

almost trough his face

[Polizei]

Im sensing a story here... what happened?

I was going to say.. I thought Ethylene was flammable, so it would take the same left hand thread of any flammable gas regulator. Thats about the extent of phase/regulator knowledge I have.

[[XC] MarioMaster]

wasn't that on the one multiple stage system in one of the guides, where he had his manifold hooked to his tank of 1150 to test it real quick and blew out the sight glass making a nice dent in the door?

[Brettbeck]

The arrival of R1150/ Ethylene: (http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=618&s=13)


In order to maximize cooling, I decided to switch to R1150/ Ethylene gas which is a much better second stage refrigerant. It finally shipped in contained within a BIG purple tank that looks very much like a torpedo.

It is a very very high pressure gas and when I tried to test if my hoses could take the pressure by just opening and closing the valve for a fraction of a second, it blew through the sight glass panel of my pressure gauge and made a deep indent on my wooden door.

[ryba]

Only add 1150 when system is shut down and everything (entire system) is at ambient temperature.

"Static Charge with complete unit off and at ambient temp"

Be sure and use a regulator - bottle pressure will blow the face out of guages :eek:


You can charge cascade when it's running, but you must have first valve in cylinder and second valve in regulator.

[Pete]

It is a sexy bottle!

[runmc]

You can charge cascade when it's running, but you must have first valve in cylinder and second valve in regulator.


I don't know what your trying to say, but I do know what I said holds true.

With a cascade you start first stage to cool down second stage gas, to lower the pressure of the second stage gas so it will condense. If you charge a second stage gas while it is at -40 to -50c to 100psi and then turn the unit off, that 100psi at -40c may end up being 200psi at room temperature. This is one of the major dangers of using a high pressure gas. You could easily see 500 psi very quickly. I know this explanation isn't true numbers, but I hope you see my point. If you charge the second stage to 100psi at ambient temp you know the pressure of the second stage gas won't get any higher unless you heat it. If first stage is working correctly you will lower the temperature of the second stage gas and it's pressure will drop.

Does that make any sense to you? :confused:

Adam did you find a valve for the bottle? The place you get the gas may have one you can buy. It shouldn't be any more than $5 - $10 dollars. I think I paid $4.50 fo mine

[n00b 0f l337]

Havent gotten around to it just yet, going to call air gas tomorrow for a pricing quote on a 20lb tank.

[runmc]

Havent gotten around to it just yet, going to call air gas tomorrow for a pricing quote on a 20lb tank.

I don't think you can get it at Airgas:nono: I got mine at Matheson Trigas

[n00b 0f l337]

Ah then I meant Air Liquide. One of these two has there online library, where you always basically have to call to get a quote, and a 20lb quantity is listed.

[wdrzal]

noob I don't remember a single unit you completed,I know my memory has been bad lately, but arn't you over reaching with 1150 with out more experience . These gases are no joke

wouldn't it be prudent to build quite a few ss units before you hurt yourself or burn down your new home.

forgive me if I'm wrong,just looking out for your safety and your familys

[Big SturL]

Come to think of it, I've never seen anything that noL has built :P

[Brettbeck]

I don't know what your trying to say, but I do know what I said holds true.

With a cascade you start first stage to cool down second stage gas, to lower the pressure of the second stage gas so it will condense. If you charge a second stage gas while it is at -40 to -50c to 100psi and then turn the unit off, that 100psi at -40c may end up being 200psi at room temperature. This is one of the major dangers of using a high pressure gas. You could easily see 500 psi very quickly. I know this explanation isn't true numbers, but I hope you see my point. If you charge the second stage to 100psi at ambient temp you know the pressure of the second stage gas won't get any higher unless you heat it. If first stage is working correctly you will lower the temperature of the second stage gas and it's pressure will drop.

Does that make any sense to you? :confused:



Ron, thanks for that post. It makes a lot more sense to me now. But just one thing... how are you supposed to tune a 1150 stage if you can't have it running when you add gas? Or is it ok to add tiny amounts to tweak it for the load?

[n00b 0f l337]

Well, you have to shut down wait, change the charge (add or subtract), and restart again. Though, I think if off of the regulator you placed a hand ball valve, then the charging hose, then another hand ball valve. You could fill that section, close the one closest to the regulator, and only let that small amount of ethylene into the system.
Any ideas?
Of course make sure your static pressures wont be insane at the same time.

[Big SturL]

Hey noL, a little request from moi, could you link to one of your builds? I'm very interested in seeing some of your work :)

[n00b 0f l337]

Hey, I put alot of my work up on OC3D and now more so lately on BlazingPC. I never really felt like showcasing my work, but there are people here running on my units. If you'd like I can post up more of my work on XS, but I dont always use my camera. I've done around 40 units or so between stuff for my own personal hardware killing :P and other peoples.
Harvshark's quad core coolers shipping pretty soon
Jimmsch silent x6800 unit is underway
Sdumpers 1hp rotary single stage is underway as well

I've done two r507a/r290 and co2 cascades now as well. I didnt like the looks of them ultimately, the HX coil I had ( one made by packless) was just too large for my tastes. The units used 2x 1/3hp reciprocating matsush17a's. I'm going to be making alot more nf11fx units very soon (quad core coolers, and maybe small cascades) as I have a pallet of them on the way.

Heres some pics of harvsharks, just need to cut a new base and tidy oop the electronics.
http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/6766/dsc01525wi8.jpg
http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/5263/dsc01526mk5.jpg
http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/3019/dsc01527zg2.jpg

[Brettbeck]

Nice unit NoL. Can you post a picture of one of your cascades please if you have any?

[wdrzal]

Well, you have to shut down wait, change the charge (add or subtract), and restart again. Though, I think if off of the regulator you placed a hand ball valve, then the charging hose, then another hand ball valve. You could fill that section, close the one closest to the regulator, and only let that small amount of ethylene into the system.
Any ideas?
Of course make sure your static pressures wont be insane at the same time.

Well noob this post will get you killed and anyone else who follows you directions.:nono: :nono: :nono:

This tells me for sure you don't understand how a gas like ethylene works.

[n00b 0f l337]

I was asking if that would work wdzral. I realize the point of charging at static is because of the pressure difference between first stage running and not. But if you know what temperature your 1st stage is cooling down to. You can easily figure out by pv=nrt what your pressures will be like, then not have to wait for the first stage to warm up.
Shoulda phrased it more like a question. Sorry.

[n00b 0f l337]

Okay, Heh was just asking, really wasn't planning to do. Just innovation doesnt happen on its own, someone has to throw out an idea to be shot down. :)

[wdrzal]

Yes calculations are very complex you need to let warn to ambient,and consider if you charge for the temp in your basement then send to some one who using it in 15 to 20 degree hotter temp? use a pressure relief valve, no exceptions. Also using Flammable gases is illegal in USA, certain mixtures have a flammable component but the LFL is high enough to be deemed safe.shipping is also taking a great risk as a tag with gas & charge by weight should be affixed.

[wdrzal]

It's deemed unsafe. we may eventually get to it but the government is waiting for a non flammable or low risk mixture that have a high LFL. the same way we use 120 volt for all small appliances, except for dedicated appliances that use 240 volt like electric stoves,dryers and A/C units. 240V is deemed to dangerous for everyday plugging in and out of small appliances.

That using flammable gases as refrigerants in a residential environment

also the new units using isobutane have special compressors and electrical packages to make them as safe as possible

[runmc]

I'm going to be making alot more nf11fx units very soon (quad core coolers, and maybe small cascades) as I have a pallet of them on the way.


When are you getting this pallet? And how many are on the pallet? Are you going to be selling any? :confused:

[n00b 0f l337]

Hey ron, you got a PM.

[Polizei]

I dont see why flammable refrigerants are a problem... Ive read that refrigerators in the US use ammonia.

I think being gassed to death in your sleep is a little more dangerous than being woken up by a smoke alarm if the flammable gas caused a fire. On the other hand though... the flammable gas might be in the right concentration to make it explosive in your house.

[n00b 0f l337]

Wdrzal, so it is illegal for people like Jinu and Chilly1 to ship cascades with ethylene in them?

[wdrzal]

I beleive so, you can't ship even dot approved bottles with gas in them thru normal shipping,they must be empty,so why would you be allowed to ship any other object containg that gas.

Now I,m talking standard usps,fed-ex and ups. there is always a way to ship freight at a much higher cost.

[boshuter]

40 units and 2 cascades in one year....:eek:

When do you sleep? :)

[thesaucier]

You will need a " CGA 350 adaptor" that will screw onto the ethylene tank. I use a nitrogen regulator. I take out the stem and fitting that goes on the nitrogen bottle and screw the stem and cga 350 adaptor into the nitrogen regulator. I found a shop that repairs regulators locally and picked up the cga 350 adaptor there.

NOL - do be extra careful with the ethylene

Dont want to steal a thread but must give props were propr are do.

Thanks so much RUNMC for what you did on my last order. Such a nice gestor will keep me a patrons of under forever! Thanks for a great place to go with confidence. I will be yours forever!! LOL

Under the ice Is the best

[n00b 0f l337]

[QUOTE]40 units and 2 cascades in one year....

When do you sleep? [QUOTE]
15-20 were sold, many just cheap phase units. Alot have just been me playing around, build, charge, tune, break down, rebuild, charge, tune, and so on. As for sleep and time, plenty of it as it was around 1.5 years or so.
Hmmm I'm sure ron's got a long long list of purchases of mine from UTI.
Built cascade once, built, tuned first stage with 2nd stage running 1st stage refrigerant, didnt like looks, took apart, rebuilt in its current form which is almost done. And now taking that apart or scrapping for parts to build a dual nf11fx cascade.
So back on topic, r1150 regulator can be a hydrogen regulator, thanks for the info.

[serialk11r]

I dont see why flammable refrigerants are a problem... Ive read that refrigerators in the US use ammonia.

I think being gassed to death in your sleep is a little more dangerous than being woken up by a smoke alarm if the flammable gas caused a fire. On the other hand though... the flammable gas might be in the right concentration to make it explosive in your house.
Ethylene is toxic as well...
Wait if ethylene is illegal to ship and stuff, then how do they use it legally to ripen fruits?

[wdrzal]

It delivered by local gas suppliers in open bed trucks with means to secure the bottles upright, even bulk trucks depending on amount used.