Finally, a proper vacuum pump!

[SexyMF]

Just thought I'd share the latest addition to my family.....


It's a girl....no, a boy.......no......it's better - a proper vacuum pump.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b224/Unxious/PropervacuumpumpMedium.jpg

:woot: :woot:

Maybe I'll get better results now.




//PS note that the picture quality is ok. This is same camera which just can not do close ups of anything.

[Brettbeck]

Nice! I need a vacuum pump too :p:. Is it new or used?

[bazx]

you must be very happy

tools are like socks you never have enough

[SexyMF]

Oh it's brand new. My father put me onto a local man who he has used for many years in conjuction with his work. He gave me a killer deal, offered support and some spare oil aswell.

This guy has a vacuum services business. So he has all sorts of awesome gear. He is also certified for calibration of electronic vacuum guages etc. Helium leak detectors, an actual mercury vacuum guage, calibration rig .....

Also, when he found out what I do, I may generate some business from him (I work for another guy doing industrial electronic servicing).

Definitely happy. I can retire the old series connnected fridge compressors.

[runmc]

Nice addition to tools. :clap:

[m411b]

Sweet, how many CFM's is it?

[wdrzal]

Sweet, how many CFM's is it?

micron rating is more important than cfm in these small systems & most systems in general as the internal volume is small. The largest system ever built on XS would be great with a 1cfm pump. cfm is rated for free air

Even a home central A/c system may only have not much more than 1 cubic foot or 2 of internal volume. so a 1 cfm will pull the system down to a pressure where the work begins in only 1 minute. a 4 cfm in 15 seconds, so the difference in small systems cfm makes little difference. but getting the water vapor bonds to release from the walls of tubing and from the oil takes some time. A heat gun or hair dryer helps the dehydration process by helping to release the bond. As you notice a vacuum pump puts out very little air/gas after the initial pull down . RSES recommends a vacuum below 1000 microns,I like always like to hold below 500 and usually very happy with 200 to 300 microns.

In these small very cold single stage or cascades,I would take advantage of the mathematical advantage of a triple evac to lowest micron rating possible.

[Xeon th MG Pony]

All though a compressor works fine having a proper one all ways make life easier, geting one is the hard part here <_< Glad to see you managed to get one! Cheeres!

[wdrzal]

All though a compressor works fine !


Guys don't listen to a compressor works fine ,bla,bla bla :nono: it DOES NOT.:nono: xeon when you validate you can get below 1000 microns or dehydrate at all ,I will stop correcting you this way,since you just never prove anything or site facts or procedures, just bla bla bla every time I give actual DATA recommended from RSES or other technical refrigeration manuals. I,m getting tired of refuting your false claims every time I Try to Teach these guys the only proper way to be sure your system is moisture free, thus problem free.

the 1 or even 2 compressors will never pull a 1000 micron rating.Even making water boil does dot prove anything, it must boil through out the system.Also @ very low pressures(absolute) restrictions are critica.l And the ONLY way to VALIDATE a good VACUUM is with a ELECTRONIC MICRON GAUGE.

@ 69f or20.55c water boils @ 29.2 inches hg vacuum @ sea level

pressures below 1000 microns is needed for effective dehydration.

Which is 29.88 inches hg vacuum=1000 microns out of a perfect vacuum(not obtainable on earth) of 29.92 inch hg vacuum. long way from boiling water @29.2.

you need to be .04 or four hundredths of a inch hg vacuum from a perfect vacuum to be acceptable. 29.90 inches vacuum =500 microns

But maybe I should thank you cause every time you post "a compressor works fine",I can spit out facts,temperatures and pressures. So these guys understand the importance of a low vacuum.

:dammit: Stewie wasn't this stubborn.:rolleyes:

:spam: :spam: ]All though a compressor works fine :spam: :spam:

[Xeon th MG Pony]

Sure thing, one did 28.5 on a proper vacuum guage, add another it aut to be fine. why don't you prove it doesn't as I'm sure you have a digital micron guage. and I think you keep forgeting this is a hobby forum, for the systems most are going to build a compressor WILL be fine, for more sophisticated systems where it is critical every thing be perfect I'll happily agree with you. Untill you can remember for what most will be doing it realy is not important no matter how much you think it is, there is a local guy just like you and I tell him the same thing and proved it.

I my self want a proper vacuum pump as it will make life easier and will be cheaper on the wallet on F/D costs. but for some one passing through the hobby that wishes to make a system for the hell of it a compressor is more then enough, I have built lots of systems over the last while and all work just dandy as others have don them selfs.

Feel free to spit all the facts you want, it does not change the fact it will work, the system will last and a compressor did the job.

any thing more then a cheap ss I fully agree.

[n00b 0f l337]

I'll be testing the myth Wdzral, I have a digital vacuum gauge on the way. I will try comparison between my true vacuum pump, single compressor, and serial compressors.

[Xeon th MG Pony]

Thanks Noob. So far it isn't a myth, out of all the systems I built with using a compressor not one has failed due to moisture so it works good enough from experiance. but like I said for any thing over a cheap ss I agree it becomes more critical of every thing being proper, how ever for a passing fad for some one making an ss a compressor will work. We all have seen it don we all see them work so how is it a myth?

[n00b 0f l337]

Well lets get some numbers down first, then we can decide if it can really dehydrate and not just remove air

[Xeon th MG Pony]

well true I am mostly interested in just removing air and it will remove a bit of moisture, at the very least remove just enought not to sod up the compressor. I once managed to dehydrate a sight glass with two inline and a blow drier so with additional heat it will do it. Took forever though.

But I will stand on my statment for thoughs passing through a compressor is fine; For the serious hobbiest a vacuum pump is needed.

I want one and I agree it is the best, no argument there, but if you want it to be fast and dirty a compressor is fine. besides geting a vac pump is dam well impossible less you have several hundred for ebay or 400 cad and know some one to buy it for you as they won't sell them with out a cert here in BC!

[expansionvalve]

A test would be a good thing to see as I am also rather in the line of thinking that fridge compressor is cr@p for evacuation.
Now I have seen a couple of test before where a compressor was connected to vessel of water and indeed the water bubbled away happily,
but to be honest that didn't really proove much to me, what we need is something more concrete, a good leak free test rig with an oil level,
tev or capillary and maybe a sightglass to link out an evaporator, to get really meaningful a droplet of water could be placed in the sight glass,
also, any micron guage used should be situated at the furthest point away of the vac pump be it proper pump or fridge comp.

That would indeed satisfy my mind, the problem being for all of us I guess is time to set up a test bed..

[n00b 0f l337]

Oh that shouldnt be to hard, I'll put the vac gauge on the high side schraeder of a single stage, and vacuum out the low.

[Xeon th MG Pony]

and let it pull down for at least two hourse, as I tend let them vac out over night but most should be, I would immagin, doing it at the very least an houre or two.

[n00b 0f l337]

Two hours? Even with a proper vacuum pump I triple evac with three 4 hour cycles.

[Xeon th MG Pony]

lol like I said I do it all night. and usualy do it 3 times too with the system heated.

[runmc]

WOW -
You guys are spending more on electricity,:D than a good vacuum pump would cost. :slobber: :slobber: :slobber:


edit for spelling

[n00b 0f l337]

Runmc I got a nice vac pump, and I still run it alot. I'll run it alot less once that digi vac meter arrives.

[runmc]

Runmc I got a nice vac pump, and I still run it alot. I'll run it alot less once that digi vac meter arrives.

You sure will NOL - You'll be able to do a job alot quicker when you can see what's happening instead of wasting time making sure you don't under do it. Your gonna be soo happy with the meter.
I did the same thing your doing before I got my meter.

[n00b 0f l337]

And even with running all the time you have no idea theres not a crack open leak without the meter.

[kayl]

WOW -
You guys are spending more on electricity,:D that a good vacuum pump would cost. :slobber: :slobber: :slobber:

hehehe, when a aircon guy comes around to install ya aircon they only give it one vacuum for 10mins:nono:

nice pump there Sexy FM, whats the specs on it, single dual vac, CFM's etc
been looking for a good pump in aus thats on the cheaper side :toast:

[wdrzal]

WOW -
You guys are spending more on electricity,:D than a good vacuum pump would cost. :slobber: :slobber: :slobber:


edit for spelling

Not to mention not getting the job done. Like I said every hobby has a cost,the closer you move to the most extreme, the more cost involved. Guys spend more for a water block and pump with a 1/2 dozens fans & controller !!!!! not to mention all the pretty lights.:cheer:

Even take your rig to a hvac or plumbing & heating shop as they will have a vacuum pump to pull a deep vacuum after you purge ,then check for leaks with nitrogen,CO2 is ok like any inert gas but cost more.. purging and a good vacuum(dehydration) are 2 of the most important steps, but most take those for granted. The inside of a refrigeration system has to be "Clean Room Clean". no dust ,dirt, shavings, burrs ,scale or oxidization & contamination of any kind. Perfectly CLEAN

This subject is like :horse: spending thousands on a CPU & mobo and taking a chance ruining it because moisture froze up ,or contaminates blocked up you cooling rig :slap: :nuts:

[Xeon th MG Pony]

Ya, I want a proper vac pump my self tried 5 times on ebay and some Ahole out bids me faster then a blink, pi*sing me right off quick. can't buy them localy with out making it so convoluted it is hard to tell which way is up. but so far the compressors are geting the job don well enough, sight glass is happy systems run smooth without issue, just a pain and labour intensive.

[Xeon th MG Pony]

Out of curiosity has any one managed to take a micron reading?

Oh and a freak accident of nature happend and I actualy got a proper vac pump me self :D http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=009&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=&item=190066988377&rd=1&rd=1

The compressors did a great job and this will do hope fully a better job, or at the verry least a more efficient one.

[Exahertz]

I work for the company Rietschle Thomas/Gardner Denver/Welch/Elmo as a tech support and mechanic for vacuum pumps. That’s all I do is learn how these things work, how to use them and how to fix them. So if you guys have any problems with them id be glad to give some assistance!

I got my welch 1402 for free but i earnded mine! :D

heres my baby:
http://www.davis.com/ItemJpg/WV1402B46-L3-1.JPG

but i modded it just a little. simple stuff though (from 1/2 HP motor to 1 HP) and a few other things to acheive a vacuum of .5 microns.... not to brag :rolleyes:

[Exahertz]

but i have been wondering, if i vac out a phase change system will i pull any of the compressor oil out. does POE outgas at very low pressure, even slightly? i dont want to contaminate the oil in my vacuum pump with the oil from a compressor considering it costs more than $70.00 to flush and refill it! and sometimes you cant get the pump to pull down very deep even after a flush, so you have to do it again and again. and i use my Welch pump to rough my turbo pump, so i need it to stay clean and pull deep.

BTW, my turbo pump pulls to a level 1X10^-9 Torr. not to brag again, lol but Hell No im not going to use that on a phase change system!!

[Xeon th MG Pony]

So if you guys have any problems with them id be glad to give some assistance!

How much are new vanes usualy? and will they fit in other modles of pumps?

[Exahertz]

our vanes are designed to fit our pumps as the clearances are less than 0.05 mm from end to end. I don’t know about your pump, but we sell them any ware from $60.00 - $300.00 each depending if it’s a dry running carbon vane pump or wet vane and by size. That’s for a typical pump. Some of these huge pumps we have like the VC 900 to 1300's prices are very steep. But I’m not allowed to quote them. lets just say a typical 2" x 1" dry carbon vane ~ $60.00 / VC 900 14" x 5" wet alumnium vane = $$$$.$$ ;)

now hey i really shouldnt be throwing around prices. tech questions are cool, but i really dont want to quoat parts (thats for the sales guys). but ill say if its cheap or expensive

[Xeon th MG Pony]

well thats the only scale there realy is! I just wanted a ruff idea, I'd be guesing the pump is a wet van as they push the oil hard. Its a Robinair Model# 15234 2 Stage, unit not sure of the material they use. If the previous owners kept it happy and clean then there should be no issue, but if there where, then what would such repairs entail. I would imagin new vans and the shell to need to be repolished!

[wdrzal]

I work for the company Rietschle Thomas/Gardner Denver/Welch/Elmo as a tech support and mechanic for vacuum pumps. That’s all I do is learn how these things work, how to use them and how to fix them. So if you guys have any problems with them id be glad to give some assistance!

I got my welch 1402 for free but i earnded mine! :D

heres my baby:
http://www.davis.com/ItemJpg/WV1402B46-L3-1.JPG

but i modded it just a little. simple stuff though (from 1/2 HP motor to 1 HP) and a few other things to acheive a vacuum of .5 microns.... not to brag :rolleyes:

please post a picture of pump pulling .5 microns,that hard to do , but welch lab pumps are good,expensive and heavy, I have one burried in the shop some where I bet it weighs over 100 pounds,direct drive all cast iron,looked like their was 4 stages bolted togeather. pumps great but would make a better boat anchor:rolleyes: