Christmas crept up on me help me make phase list :)

[POGE]

Ok so basically christmas cought me by surprise, and my parents need a list of parts needed to build a phase change system. I have the basics down and plan on learning much more before I even pick up any of this :banana::banana::banana::banana:, but I need the list by the end of today... so help me out guys. I plan on making my own evap and I have a drill press. I also have an infinite supply of old windor A/C's, along with basic tools. Everything else can be assumed I dont have.

[Supertim0r]

Under The Ice by Runmc

Chilly1 evap (http://www.under-the-ice.com/product_info.php?products_id=57&osCsid=af2db05885e56ca2a56c162f7fd5e18d)
case if needed (http://www.under-the-ice.com/product_info.php?cPath=40&products_id=93&osCsid=af2db05885e56ca2a56c162f7fd5e18d)
Danfoss NF11FX compressor (http://www.under-the-ice.com/product_info.php?cPath=32&products_id=88&osCsid=af2db05885e56ca2a56c162f7fd5e18d)
condenser (http://www.under-the-ice.com/product_info.php?cPath=33&products_id=80&osCsid=af2db05885e56ca2a56c162f7fd5e18d)
cap tube (http://www.under-the-ice.com/index.php?cPath=29&osCsid=af2db05885e56ca2a56c162f7fd5e18d)
dryer (http://www.under-the-ice.com/product_info.php?cPath=31&products_id=42&osCsid=af2db05885e56ca2a56c162f7fd5e18d)
insulation (http://www.under-the-ice.com/index.php?cPath=28&osCsid=af2db05885e56ca2a56c162f7fd5e18d)
shrader valve (http://www.under-the-ice.com/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=31&osCsid=af2db05885e56ca2a56c162f7fd5e18d)
flex suction line (http://www.under-the-ice.com/index.php?cPath=38&osCsid=af2db05885e56ca2a56c162f7fd5e18d)

excellent service/support from runmc :)

[POGE]

Plan on making my own evap and already have condensor's and compressors. I need tools too. Those are just parts for the system... I'm not going to act like I know what I'm talking about my my dad wants a list today and I need to get this all down on paper, and then research, research, and research... And what about gas?

[Supertim0r]

tools...eh

vacuum pump
nitrogen tank
manifolds
ref. recovery machine
b-tank + turbo torch
tubing cutter
flaring tools
tube bender
swaging punch
Brazing Alloys
and few more tools

thats a lot of $$$ for tools you know

gas : R404A, R507, R402A (I don't know the USA law but here in Canada, you need a licence to buy those gas)

[Brettbeck]

For gas you could use R290 (propane) which is very cheap, and you don't need a licence to get it. It's only disadvantage is that it's flammable, and it STINKS :p: lol.

[n00b 0f l337]

Propane itself does not stink, but additives in it do. As for propane, we highly discourage it.

[Brettbeck]

I know it's not the best gas around...but I don't have £100-£150 for a tank of proper refrigerant right now :( . I suppose it's ok for temperary use though :).

[star882]

You can also use R134a, which is pretty safe and easily available. Since you have a lot of old window A/Cs (just how many?), you might even take the refrigerant (probably R22) out of one of the units.
You can make a chiller unit without even cutting a pipe, but it won't perform as good as direct die. Of course, it's much cheaper for a lot of systems (a unit made from a new window A/C can easily handle 3-4 systems for $200), so it is actually more practical to use. I plan to make a "hybrid" system - one that uses direct die and chiller. I'll use the direct die for a very fast CPU and cool the video cards, etc with the chiller. Later, I might even cascade off the chiller for greater performance.

[POGE]

You can also use R134a, which is pretty safe and easily available. Since you have a lot of old window A/Cs (just how many?), you might even take the refrigerant (probably R22) out of one of the units.
You can make a chiller unit without even cutting a pipe, but it won't perform as good as direct die. Of course, it's much cheaper for a lot of systems (a unit made from a new window A/C can easily handle 3-4 systems for $200), so it is actually more practical to use. I plan to make a "hybrid" system - one that uses direct die and chiller. I'll use the direct die for a very fast CPU and cool the video cards, etc with the chiller. Later, I might even cascade off the chiller for greater performance.
I've already made a chiller for my x1900 out of an old window A/C. Reached -30C unloaded and got my x1900 down to -1C. :) I have an endless supply of (basically free) window a/c's. Now I'm trying to get into phase but I dont have much time to make a list and I'm in way over my head atm.
http://img.techpowerup.org/060903/woot.jpg

[LostInSpace278]

Flex suction line
cap tube or CPEV(Constant pressure expansion valve) depends on which way you want to go.
Insulation- most use armaflex
Shrader Valves
Vacuum pump- a necessity. In a pinch you can search forums for compressors-turned-vacuum.
Charging Manifold
Tubing cutter
Mapp Torch
Flare/Swaging tools
Tube bender
Brazing alloy- Staysilv 15 is the most affordable and will hold up to the pressures.
Gases-R134,R22, and I think R410 can be bought without a license in the states.
If you go with R410 make sure you get R410 charging manifold. They are rated at a higher pressure.

If you don't use nitrogen to purge system while brazing, make sure you use a good filter.

[wdrzal]

Ok so basically christmas cought me by surprise, and my parents need a list of parts needed to build a phase change system. I have the basics down and plan on learning much more before I even pick up any of this :banana::banana::banana::banana:, but I need the list by the end of today... so help me out guys. I plan on making my own evap and I have a drill press. I also have an infinite supply of old windor A/C's, along with basic tools. Everything else can be assumed I dont have.

Hi POGE,welcome to the cooling section..............But I don't understand the request and the rush.

If your going to be building a system soon,You should have done enough reading so Its YOU that should make the list.

Santa and the elf's will check it twice,just to be sure you are on the right track.;)

Elf Sleepy,

yes, dwarf sleepy moonlights to help Santa in the Christmas season. :)

[star882]

If you go with R410 make sure you get R410 charging manifold. They are rated at a higher pressure.
That's only for A/C units. The Britney workstations cooled with R410a operate at a maximum of 350PSI on the high side - well within the limits of regular gauges.

Gases-R134,R22, and I think R410 can be bought without a license in the states.
R22 does require a license. R134a doesn't. Not too sure about R410a but I think it does.

[Moc]

Use R290 and work safe! Should work good. Other tools are mentioned in this thread... You can use R290 for brazing, and as a refrigiant so its the best thing ever for phase change if you ask me!

Flammable gases should never be used for purging. It is against rules to discuss purging with flammable gases in this forum. Please don't do it again - runmc

[martinjon666]

Use R290 and work safe! Should work good. Other tools are mentioned in this thread... You can use R290 for brazing, purging and as a refrigiant so its the best thing ever for phase change if you ask me!



Until you make a mistake and blow up, the dangers involved with using propane are too many. This topic has been covered before and as a general forum concensus propane is not recommended. Correct me if i am wrong.



As far as your christmas list, pick out the most expensive components, the vaccum pump and the recovery unit. Let mom and dad foot the bill on the big stuff and you can get the other stuff as you get closer to building a unit.

[LostInSpace278]

http://www.epa.gov/docs/ozone/title6/608/faq.html#q3

Is section 608 technician certification required in order to purchase R-410A?
HFC refrigerant substitutes that do not contain an ozone-depleting substance (such as R-410A or R-134a) are not covered under the refrigerant sales restriction. Therefore, section 608 technician certification is not required in order to purchase HFC refrigerant substitutes that do not contain an ozone-depleting substance. It remains illegal to knowingly vent HFC substitutes during the maintenance, service, repair, or disposal of appliances.

What type of technician certification is required to service buses using R-22 refrigerant?
The type of required certification depends on the type of compressor, type of refrigerant, and the function of the cooling. Air-conditioners used in buses, trains, planes, construction vehicles, etc. that use HCFC-22 refrigerant (R-22) are not classified as motor vehicle air conditioners (MVACs); therefore, technicians servicing such appliances must be certified as a section 608 type II or universal technician.

So, R410 does not require a license and R22 does require a license.

Thankyou Star for pointing that out.

[Brettbeck]

What I would like to know is... where do you go, and what do you have to do to accqire a licence? Do you have to pass tests or something?

[LostInSpace278]

http://www.epatest.com/

This is where I took my test at. Yes, you have to pass a test for your 608 Type 1 License and it does cost a little bit of money.

[Brettbeck]

Brett,

In the UK you'll need a minimum of City and Guilds in safe refrigerant handling, ive done a mock paper and passed so its not too hard, it's a lot of money for a hobby £250 IIRC. At the moment it isnt mandatory, but it will be soon. Many wholesalers wont sell to you without it, but some will, for example post 11 ;)

Tom

Jeez that is expensive. But is that for all refrigerants? Just out of curiosity... where would you go if you wanted to take a test? Or to learn what is on it?

I've read before that people can get hold of any gas, even if you're supposed to have a licence, by just ordering through a company. That way, the supplier will automaticly assume you have the appropriate licence(s).

[bazx]

Jeez that is expensive. But is that for all refrigerants? Just out of curiosity... where would you go if you wanted to take a test? Or to learn what is on it?

I've read before that people can get hold of any gas, even if you're supposed to have a licence, by just ordering through a company. That way, the supplier will automaticly assume you have the appropriate licence(s).


hi brett i will be taking the test in the new year


CITB SAFE HANDLING OF REFRIGERANTS (City &
Guilds 2078-01 available on request)

The course fee is £275 plus VAT (includes study notes and entry fee).

This 1½ day programme (one day revision & ½ day assessment) is FOR EXPERIENCED REFRIGERATION ENGINEERS – it is not suitable for beginners. It includes equivalent certification to City & Guilds 2078-01 Parts 1 & 2 on successful completion of the programme.

The training will cover the following topics:
Environmental impact of refrigerants
Safe use of CFC, HCFC, HFC, HC and blended refrigerants
Discussion of medium and long term alternatives to chlorinated refrigerants
Best practises including sources of advice, leak/pressure testing to BS378, storage and transportation of cylinders, efficient operation and monitoring of running parameters, evacuation and charging of systems

The assessment varies depending on which scheme (CITB or C&G) the candidate has elected to use.

Both schemes require one on one practical assessment of competence in the following areas:
Attaching and removing gauges on a system
Adding refrigerant to a system
Recovering refrigerant from a system
Preparing recovered refrigerant for removal from site
Leaving the plant running efficiently and leak free

Both schemes require assessment of underpinning knowledge.

The CITB scheme uses an open book short answer written test.

The City & Guilds scheme uses one to one oral questions.

Both schemes allow the successful candidate to join the ACRIB (Air Conditioning and Refrigeration Industries Board) register of personnel qualified as safe refrigerant handlers.

Current legislation requires those handling ozone depleting substances to have an appropriate qualification. The European Union’s F-gas regulation No842/2006 became law on 4 July 2006 and requires those handling fluorinated refrigerants to have an appropriate qualification.

Both schemes satisfy the demands of the legislation. It is likely that the ACRIB register will be used to police the legislation.

Steve Willis Training and Assessment Centres Ltd also offers:-
Gas · Electrical · Water Regs · Unvented Hot Water Systems

Contact: 01444 870860 for further details

[star882]

http://www.epa.gov/docs/ozone/title6/608/faq.html#q3

Is section 608 technician certification required in order to purchase R-410A?
HFC refrigerant substitutes that do not contain an ozone-depleting substance (such as R-410A or R-134a) are not covered under the refrigerant sales restriction. Therefore, section 608 technician certification is not required in order to purchase HFC refrigerant substitutes that do not contain an ozone-depleting substance. It remains illegal to knowingly vent HFC substitutes during the maintenance, service, repair, or disposal of appliances.

What type of technician certification is required to service buses using R-22 refrigerant?
The type of required certification depends on the type of compressor, type of refrigerant, and the function of the cooling. Air-conditioners used in buses, trains, planes, construction vehicles, etc. that use HCFC-22 refrigerant (R-22) are not classified as motor vehicle air conditioners (MVACs); therefore, technicians servicing such appliances must be certified as a section 608 type II or universal technician.

So, R410 does not require a license and R22 does require a license.

Thankyou Star for pointing that out.
Sounds nice. I think I'll go straight to R410a for my next project. I'll need to find a compressor designed for R410a, though. (Or maybe I'll use R410a in a second stage along with a R134a first stage!)