View Full Version : 8800GTX min. temps
Hi
This is my first post on xtremesystems.org. And i hope i placed the thread the right place.
Well my question is, if there is anyone who knows what the 8800GTX have of minimum temperatur on the bridge.
Here is a picture of the block, it's the little piece on the side. Which covers the bridge.
http://www.webshop-innovatek.de/assets/s2dmain.html?http://www.webshop-innovatek.de/
Hope you can help.
Svan
epion2985
12-14-2006, 12:31 AM
Not sure I understand what you mean. The site you linked in in German which I cant read, and it doesn't point to a specific product.
If you are asking for a minimum temperature for a block then there really is no "stated" temperature, but if you want to use a water block with a chiller generally it is recommended it is all metal (top and bottom), and that its either a one solid piece or that you take out the rubber o-ring and braze the block shut (or use a low temp epoxy) to prevent leaks from o-ring "degeneration" and uneven material shrinkage.
http://www.webshop-innovatek.de/images/g8021.jpg
the little piece on the left side, is called the bridge what is it minimum teperature.
epion2985
12-14-2006, 05:18 PM
Again there is no "stated" minimum temperature. But like I said sat away from anything non metal. I would not take anything non mental below 0C.
Also ram covering water blocks are a poor choice to begin with because of excess restriction. Ram doesn't need water cooling and you only hurt your system performance by lowering the flow for what it matters, cpu/gpu. Also they are hard to insulate and I don't think there any 100% metal blocks, which means nothing decent to use for a chiller project.
The only that will be watercooled is my 8800GTX and the northbridge.
And no insultation will be needed. and its the chip on the 8800GTX which is called the bridge.
HaxR3
12-15-2006, 09:27 AM
Basicaly he wants to know what is the minimum temperature for the "Bridge" component on the CARD ;)
Basicaly he wants to know what is the minimum temperature for the "Bridge" component on the CARD ;)
Yep!:D
epion2985
12-15-2006, 03:23 PM
None that I know of. If its there its a lot lower then you will ever be able to get to.
{.bLanK} GoD
12-15-2006, 04:09 PM
At a guess the entire graphics card will be able to withstand at at least 0°C if not much lower.
But you said Svan, that you don't need insulation...
Sounds like a massive contradiction to me.
Unless your not telling us something.:stick:
Unless your not telling us something.:stick:
hehe :sofa:
Currently im trying to make it possible not to insulate. But i might have too, but then i got a bunch of it...;)
epion2985
12-16-2006, 04:05 AM
Currently im trying to make it possible not to insulate. But i might have too, but then i got a bunch of it...;)
Let me make this simple, if your temperatures will be below ~16C you need insulation. Usually its good to look around humidity 80% +, because on rainy days its very high and while your system may be ok right now you don't want it to crap out just because it rained that day.
Usually if you want to have a chiller or a direct die setup you will have to insulate, don't try to outsmart physics. It can be expensive.
At a modest 23C ambient temperature and 80% humidity you will get condensation at 19C, so be careful.
http://www.overclockers.com/tips1201/image007.jpg
Well im more interrested in the pump i need to chose i looked at iwaki pumps. A good choise? and next which waterblocks should i chose for my system? There aint many for 8800GTX out right now.
epion2985
12-16-2006, 06:03 AM
Pumps of my choice for a chiller, in order from best to ok:
Iwaki RD30
Iwaki md20 RLZ
Panworld40PX
Best cpu block is the swiftech mcw6002, hard to find though.
Best one of the best gpu blocks period (my choice for ambient cooling as well) is the silverprop Cyclone Fusion SL (http://www.silverprop.com/cyclonefusionsl.aspx). Not many mounts for 8800 floating around, just make your own bracket, its easy and well worth it.
rodman
12-16-2006, 06:42 PM
BFG told me you should not run a 8800GTX under 32C:stick:
{.bLanK} GoD
12-16-2006, 08:55 PM
Best cpu block is the swiftech mcw6002, hard to find though.
I second that.
I will have several LiquidCC (http://xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=125405) Surge blocks available after Christmas sometime.
HaxR3
12-17-2006, 01:23 AM
BFG told me you should not run a 8800GTX under 32C:stick:
Within warranty :poke:
well warranty is gone if i start overclocking, removing the fan on the card or something like it. so godbye warranty:D
Im not gonna need a waterblock for my CPU because it will be cooled by my Vapo LS.
got another question, how much can i cool the intire card, without mosfet. If i well run it 24/7, can the PCB handle a constant lets say -10?
rpg711
12-17-2006, 04:19 AM
Hi
This is my first post on xtremesystems.org. And i hope i placed the thread the right place.
Well my question is, if there is anyone who knows what the 8800GTX have of minimum temperatur on the bridge.
Here is a picture of the block, it's the little piece on the side. Which covers the bridge.
http://www.webshop-innovatek.de/assets/s2dmain.html?http://www.webshop-innovatek.de/
Hope you can help.
Svan
minimum tempurature?
what do u mean?
cold bug?
unless its at like -100 or so celcius i dont expect it to;)
if ur just putting it under water then dont worry, it will STILL be like 30c even after the water
but its still better for clocks if u can make ur own ram sinks... otherwise stay with the stock cooler because the ram is what u wanna cool, and if its a low profile block it will only cool the core, not ram. unless if u can make ur own ram water block...
edit:woops chilled water... expect it to NOT cold bug under chilled water... chilled water is still like -10c or so... so it should operate around 0c
no problems
edit2:got another question, how much can i cool the intire card, without mosfet. If i well run it 24/7, can the PCB handle a constant lets say -10?
yes, -10 is nothing
the question is if ur overclocking the ram at all... if u are get ram block
i will get either watercooling on the ram, or a bunch of fans to cool the ram.
So no worries if i cool the water down to lets say -20 and run i 24/7, (sounds good to me). I will post pics. when i have finished the comp. but i will take some time. Still lots of work to be done. Need fx to buy a compressor more, and of course be finished with my homemade copper case.:)
Im also waiting to receive my 2nd gainward 8800GTX, and my Silverstone zeus 850W PSU.
rpg711
12-17-2006, 04:27 AM
i will get either watercooling on the ram, or a bunch of fans to cool the ram.
So no worries if i cool the water down to lets say -20 and run i 24/7, (sounds good to me). I will post pics. when i have finished the comp. but i will take some time. Still lots of work to be done. Need fx to buy a compressor more, and of course be finished with my homemade copper case.:)
if ur using fans u better hope ur room has a humidity of 0%... u dont want to blow humidified AIR on the cold pcb... unless u want a 600$ piece of black junk :D
hehe no thats right:D wont be a good christmas...
But lets say there wasnt any air in the room...:D
epion2985
12-17-2006, 04:48 AM
edit:woops chilled water... expect it to NOT cold bug under chilled water... chilled water is still like -10c or so... so it should operate around 0c
no problems
Not really. You can make a small chiller that will hold -40C coolant. Its just a matter of building it to do so and sizing things properly. But it all depends on what he is making. If he is broke and is going to hack up a window ac then he wont get that low, but if its a build from the ground up with quality parts and nice budget then the temperatures will be quite different.
It will be a compressor cooling a watertank.
epion2985
12-17-2006, 06:37 PM
It will be a compressor cooling a watertank.
I hope you realize that means absolutely nothing as it is completely open to interpretation.
What compressor?
What condenser?
What refrigerant?
Whats the charge?
What heat exchanger?
SLHX?
What metering device and the specifics of calibration and tunning?
How much and what insulation?
What coolant and how much?
What pump?
What condensing temperature?
Heatload amount?
PS:
Compressors don't "cool" anything. They compress.
I hope you realize that means absolutely nothing as it is completely open to interpretation.
What compressor?
What condenser?
What refrigerant?
Whats the charge?
What heat exchanger?
SLHX?
What metering device and the specifics of calibration and tunning?
How much and what insulation?
What coolant and how much?
What pump?
What condensing temperature?
Heatload amount?
PS:
Compressors don't "cool" anything. They compress.
Yeah i know, but its hard to answer when i don't know which compressor etc. it will be.
rpg711
12-18-2006, 12:00 PM
Yeah i know, but its hard to answer when i don't know which compressor etc. it will be.
take 3 window ac compressors and make a super chiller lolz
but really, for that price... u could make a really really good cascade phasechange
epion2985
12-18-2006, 09:56 PM
take 3 window ac compressors and make a super chiller lolz
but really, for that price... u could make a really really good cascade phasechange
Cascades are only for short bench sessions and generally can not run for long periods of time due to problems like oil freezing in the evap and others.
Also I doubt he wants to have his chiller making as much noise as a blender while burning a hole in the floor. Rotary cascades have their place, in the garage on a cement floor for short use.
Cascades are only for short bench sessions and generally can not run for long periods of time due to problems like oil freezing in the evap and others.
Also I doubt he wants to have his chiller making as much noise as a blender while burning a hole in the floor. Rotary cascades have their place, in the garage on a cement floor for short use.
Yep, know but the noise dont bother me...:) well i've just got a compressor, for free:D well now its time for condensator etc.
rpg711
12-20-2006, 03:57 PM
what refrigerant?
the ones u can get from normal stores is r134a
i suggest that
[XC] mysticmerlin
12-21-2006, 02:15 AM
If you have the cash to buy all the high dollar parts you have why not just get a custome built 2 head phase made for your SLI or get one of those 3 headed monsters off Frozencpu.com :2cents:
epion2985
12-21-2006, 05:51 AM
If you have the cash to buy all the high dollar parts you have why not just get a custome built 2 head phase made for your SLI or get one of those 3 headed monsters off Frozencpu.com :2cents:
Because at that point a chiller performs better then a DD. This has been brought up many times. The DD evap is somewhats of a nasty thermal bottle neck. And the refrigerant doesn't have great capacity, unlike water, or the likes. Moving heat with coolant then cooling it an a large heat exchanger moves more heat then a DD evap on the cpu. Also a chiller has much more stability and deals with heat spikes much better. Plus when you swap parts you only mess with the coolant side and never have to mess with the chiller internals.
epion, you talk about this Iwaki MD20 pump. Is this a good choise for chilled water, i mean like -30 maybe(not so cold probably). What's the minimum temp. for this pump, because these pumps are damn expensive, so dont wanna buy something which will break or can't handle the temperatures.;)
[XC] mysticmerlin
12-21-2006, 05:22 PM
@ epion2985 of course you are right but what I was saying is if you are dropping cash on top of the line parts and are new at the diy chiller idea it may be a better idea to just buy one.
@ Svan if you run the right mix a MD20 is a great pump for chillers. Also they are worth the price IMO.
rpg711
12-21-2006, 06:43 PM
@ epion2985 of course you are right but what I was saying is if you are dropping cash on top of the line parts and are new at the diy chiller idea it may be a better idea to just buy one.
@ Svan if you run the right mix a MD20 is a great pump for chillers. Also they are worth the price IMO.
well if money is no object then buy an endless supply of liquid nitrogen, and make a huge ln2 tank that is suspended above ur cpu and gives it a constant amount, it has holes so the evaporated ln2 can escape
but i bet money IS an object tho...
i still think the ln2 idea isnt bad
or instead of any water or coolant taht may freeze, put some air conditioning fluid in (ie, r134a) i dunno how it would work but i guess it has the same priciple as a phase change, a evap/radiator and a compressor, am i not mistaken?
[XC] mysticmerlin
12-21-2006, 10:12 PM
water cut with methanol or something of the like is the prefered method.
If you are asking if you can run 134a on the water side of the chiller loop then no.
Endless supply of LN2 I thought I seen some one on this forum that had a closed loop Ln2 system. Can't seem to find it but I know I seen something like that.
Blaster
12-22-2006, 10:47 AM
Because at that point a chiller performs better then a DD. This has been brought up many times. The DD evap is somewhats of a nasty thermal bottle neck. And the refrigerant doesn't have great capacity, unlike water, or the likes. Moving heat with coolant then cooling it an a large heat exchanger moves more heat then a DD evap on the cpu. Also a chiller has much more stability and deals with heat spikes much better. Plus when you swap parts you only mess with the coolant side and never have to mess with the chiller internals.
think we had this discussion before but...
a direct die has increased capacity over a chiller because the heat is transfered by the change of phase and not by normal heat conduction as on chillers and regular water cooling
Changing the phase of a refrigerant conducts more heat than heat convection or conduction
epion2985
12-22-2006, 03:49 PM
epion, you talk about this Iwaki MD20 pump. Is this a good choise for chilled water, i mean like -30 maybe(not so cold probably). What's the minimum temp. for this pump, because these pumps are damn expensive, so dont wanna buy something which will break or can't handle the temperatures.;)
"officially" they are rated for 0C. However in reality they seem to do just fine around -30C/-40C. Thing is there really is no better pump to be had easily. Sure they have pumps rated below -50C but they also cost in thousands not hundreds and may consume more power and produce a lot more noise. As things are right now I personalty haven't seen anything better in the price range.
PS: makes sure you get the md20 RLZ (high pressure version) you don't want high flow as you wont see any.
@ epion2985 of course you are right but what I was saying is if you are dropping cash on top of the line parts and are new at the diy chiller idea it may be a better idea to just buy one.
I have yet to see a chiller that would meet our needs in the same price range it costs to make a nice one with new parts. All of the once I have seen are usually aquarium or the likes and they never go very low, they are made for temperatures around 0C. And usually they are not very great in terms of design or components. You can buy a nice chiller but it will probably run you 5k or so.
well if money is no object then buy an endless supply of liquid nitrogen, and make a huge ln2 tank that is suspended above ur cpu and gives it a constant amount, it has holes so the evaporated ln2 can escape
but i bet money IS an object tho...
i still think the ln2 idea isnt bad
or instead of any water or coolant taht may freeze, put some air conditioning fluid in (ie, r134a) i dunno how it would work but i guess it has the same priciple as a phase change, a evap/radiator and a compressor, am i not mistaken?
ln2 is not practical and too high maintenance.
There is no such thing as "air conditioning fluid". First of all its called a refrigerant, second its a fluid and gas in various points in the loop, sometimes both. I don't think you have a good understanding as to what you are saying as it makes no sense. Refrigerants are normally gases at STP and that are not great for moving heat. Only reason they are used is because they have low boiling temperature. The whole point of a chiller int his application is to deal with the shortcomings of refrigerants and direct die evaps. A chiller is a phase change cooling system that cools a coolant which in tern cools a heat source. Thus eliminating the need to be limited by the dd evap and instead gives you the ability to use a large heat exchanger and waterblock/coolant that are much lesser thermal bottlenecks., also giving a whole other array of benefits.
What you are "trying" to say is why not have a direct die system with the evap mounted on the cpu directly. Thats called direct die application not a chiller. As to why chillers are better I have explained this above.
think we had this discussion before but...
a direct die has increased capacity over a chiller because the heat is transfered by the change of phase and not by normal heat conduction as on chillers and regular water cooling
Changing the phase of a refrigerant conducts more heat than heat convection or conduction
Wrong.
Heat is "conducted" only one way. What that transfer is a result of has little to do with it. Convection refers to air, saying moving heath through air is worse then though copper for example has nothing to do with what is discussed here. This statement "Changing the phase of a refrigerant conducts more heat than heat convection or conduction" is 100% wrong and makes zero sense period. You are talking about two different things. How the energy is bing transfered and why are different things. If I have -50C on one side of a copper plate because something evaporated of it it or because I touched with with something cold or etc has absolutely nothing to do with how the heat flows though it.
However looking over time at heat pulled away the capacity does depend on the source. That though has nothing to do with conduction. And why a chiller outperforms at some point I already explained once.
A DD does not heave greater capacity, in fact depending on how you look at it it has less. It has a little more direct capacity because there is higher efficiency due to the heat being conducted though less mediums.
However the evap is limited, as it has to be small, and it has to have as much surface area as possible as close to the heat source as possible. So at some point the evap becomes the thermal bottleneck. While a waterblock, be as it my be limited by the same constraints uses a medium which it much much much better at moving heat. Once you have the heat in the coolant you can then run it off to a large plate heat exchanger where you are not limited by size, design, weight etc and be able to transfer much greater amounts of heat. At which point a chiller will actually have greater capacity as the DD will be limited by the evap.
Chillers also have much greater stability as the large amount of coolant has great thermal inertia.
If you still don't get it try talking to Jin.
rpg711
12-24-2006, 06:22 PM
ok listen to the expert
Modzilla
12-25-2006, 11:28 AM
Also a chiller has much more stability and deals with heat spikes much better. Plus when you swap parts you only mess with the coolant side and never have to mess with the chiller internals.
Amen. and you can cool more than one component, by adding additional waterblocks to the loop.
rpg711
12-25-2006, 06:05 PM
Amen. and you can cool more than one component, by adding additional waterblocks to the loop.
ya
but ur chilled water cool overclocks suck (im sorry but i have to say)
my old computer air cooled got to 3.9ghz and it was a p4 3ghz
Modzilla
12-25-2006, 09:52 PM
My overclock sucks for 3 reasons: First, because its a p4 extreme edition (gallatin core). You can't get the big overclocks out of these cpu's that you can get with a p4 northwood core. Second, because I am keeping the cpu and ram in 1:1, and memory timings at 2-2-2-5. I could go faster if I wanted to go looser, which I don't. Third, because I lowered it to play Oblivion crash-free. It was 3.92 (245 fsb), and at this overclock I played star wars: battlefront 2 and doom3 for at least 2 hours each without a single crash. But when playing Oblivion at this overclock I got 2 crashes to desktop in 2 hours. So I lowered it to 3.84 (240 fsb), and not a single crash in another 2 hours of Oblivion, so I left it there. My sucky overclock has nothing to do with my chiller. The temperature of the coolant after about 4 hours of load (game playing) is about -25C.
epion2985
12-26-2006, 09:17 PM
ya
but ur chilled water cool overclocks suck (im sorry but i have to say)
my old computer air cooled got to 3.9ghz and it was a p4 3ghz
Judging his oc as a show of chiller performance is like evaluating how strong a tractor is by the color of the oranges its hauling, ie makes zero sense. Maybe he has a bad chip, maybe its a bad mobo, maybe he is a bad oc'er, I don't know, but his OC has nothing to do with how cold a chiller can get or how much heat it can move.
That my friends is a fallacy.
PS:
First of all chilled water wont get you far as it freezes at 0C.
ok listen to the expert
Chilly1 is an expert. DetroitAC is an expert. I am no expert, just a guy who payed attention in his physics classes, and continues to do so :dog:
rpg711
12-28-2006, 06:20 AM
Judging his oc as a show of chiller performance is like evaluating how strong a tractor is by the color of the oranges its hauling, ie makes zero sense. Maybe he has a bad chip, maybe its a bad mobo, maybe he is a bad oc'er, I don't know, but his OC has nothing to do with how cold a chiller can get or how much heat it can move.
That my friends is a fallacy.
PS:
First of all chilled water wont get you far as it freezes at 0C.
Chilly1 is an expert. DetroitAC is an expert. I am no expert, just a guy who payed attention in his physics classes, and continues to do so :dog:
wait... if ur using coolant wont it cool later... like -20c?
epion2985
12-28-2006, 04:01 PM
wait... if ur using coolant wont it cool later... like -20c?
What are you talking about? Whats happening later?
rpg711
12-28-2006, 06:45 PM
What are you talking about? Whats happening later?
erm i mean wont it freeze later..
epion2985
12-29-2006, 05:28 AM
Well yea, but no one uses pure water in chillers if they want to go below 0C. You can use antifreze, its not great for flow or heat transfer though. Best is distilled water cut with methanol. Or if methanol is hard to get ethanol works too.
epion, how much will i be able to clock my 8800GTX from like 5C to -25C how much more will i gain.
epion2985
12-29-2006, 08:55 PM
I don't think I can give you an accurate guesstimate, I am a very inexperienced overclocker. Hopefully someone else can answer that one :)
I wager it depends on the chip as well.
bartsimsonii
12-31-2006, 07:43 AM
epion, how much will i be able to clock my 8800GTX from like 5C to -25C how much more will i gain.
Theres no guarantee on what you will be able to get as there are several factors.
How good of a o'clocker are you? (Im assuming your just starting)
Are you doing any v-mods?
Is your 8800 any good?
ect ect
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