Oxy/Acetil or Mapp for home user ?

[Marvin]

Hi friends, i have a MAPP benrzomatic torch ,that give me a lot of happines, but sometimes give me headaches, when i have to braze large brass conectors aand evaporatorators.
Here in Brazil whe can find a complete oxy/acet setup for some like 400,00 dollars. Sincerly, i am not a phase buider (to sell), but is my hobby.
Is it woth the money ?
sorry my english.
Marvin

[star882]

Are you going to use it a lot? If so, yes, go for it.
BTW, a cheap TS4000 is enough even for brazing evaporators.

[Brettbeck]

I just got this;

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=126087

And im very pleased with it. I've just a few minutes ago brazed a piece of solid steel to copper with ease!

If you plan to build several units it's probably worth it. I would recommend going for the small portapak cylinders. And check eBay for other little bits and bobs.

[epion2985]

I payed about $400 for my oxy-ace set, I am not a builder (yet anyway haha), and I do not regret it. Very fun to use, has other applications. Fun to cut things with if you get a cutting attachment. Good tool to have around the house.

Love it :)

[jinu117]

Ehehe... keep an eye out guys. Will be selling one of my old torch set:P (no tanks though as it is illegal to send charged tanks). I am moving to jewler level torch in general since it is so much easier to move around while have capacity for up to #2 point tip for regular torch easily.
Honestly though, good tools always helps. There are even different grade of Mapp Torch AFAIK or straight air acetylene torches, etc.

[epion2985]

Honestly though, good tools always helps.

*crys* I want a cnc mill so bad http://www.vulomedia.com/images/61926bawling.gifhttp://www.vulomedia.com/images/61926bawling.gifhttp://www.vulomedia.com/images/61926bawling.gifhttp://www.vulomedia.com/images/61926bawling.gifhttp://www.vulomedia.com/images/61926bawling.gifhttp://www.vulomedia.com/images/61926bawling.gifhttp://www.vulomedia.com/images/61926bawling.gifhttp://www.vulomedia.com/images/61926bawling.gif

[m411b]

A CNC Mill would be a dream!

[wdrzal]

jinu, what do you mean by jewlers level torch???? can you post A pic,if it is what I'm thinking you don't what that micro torch.

get a caddy set,R oxygen and mc acetylene tank. with a combination torch,so you can braze and heat and change to cutting head to cut steel and rusted bolts. Very habdy and you own the bottles so there is no lease.

since you do a lot of brazing you may want to consider bigger tanks.

[jinu117]

It's micro torch by Smith :) I do want this torch and RunMC can vouch for it ;) It's more than sufficient to do what we do and actually better with the concetrated heat even for most HVAC jobs. I have 3 caddy sets with MC&R set :) In fact, I have big normal sized torch which I never use for those occasions that might need it with the cutting head, etc. Yes I basically had 3 torch set to begin with... just never end up using the other two now and one is mini torch (not micro) which I figured people can use great. It's kind of frankenstein now with uniweld torch, caddy, mc regulator and prest-o-lite oxygen regulator (I had to replace defective one), and few tips (#1, #2, #3) and... gasp... one of those o-ring hook tip. Used to be my primary torch till I started using the micro torch :)
Only lease I have on bottles would be R-23, R-116, Ethylene and few more exotic gases. Almost tempted to buy some of tanks straight on at this point -_-;

[wdrzal]

You just need a smaller torch handle ,I like a# 0 or #1 tip for 3/8 tube and smaller, many people call them aircraft torches, not as big as a regular conbination but not as small as those smith mini jewlers torches. I think those are too small.

even a # 2 tip is a universal tip you can braze from cap tube to over 2 inch.

I will take some pictures of torches tomorrow or next few days , as I probable have a dozen just here at the house.

[jinu117]

Have you used one at all Wdrzal? I have 5 tips on this mini torch and I only use up to tip #4 in reality. There are up to tip #7 i have option of swapping to which is roughly that of tip #2 of regular torch. It is much lighter to hold small enough to get into places where it would be awkward with bigger torch, etc. It really is jewel of torch I like a lot. Maybe you should give it a try.
Anyways, here is 3 torches I have. Big one is obivously never been used and just sitting there (victor), middle one was the one I used to use, and smallest one is the one I use now a day. I am getting another set of the smaller one shortly with hook tip. The torch you meant probably is middle torch.
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9693.JPG
PS) the middle one right now has the hook tip I mentioned, great for quicky brazing pipes.

[wdrzal]

That middle one with a #0 or #1 tip if you want to be gas stingy a #00 will give enough heat to braze a joint in 15 seconds. get a #0 or #1 for middle torch,that small one I hate,IMO. I used them.to small. knobs are to small and hand is too close to heat.

I hate thos hook tips I like 1 single flame,you learn to move the torch and you can get presise controll after you get good.

[wdrzal]

So the torch you want is even smaller than smallest one pictured?????

[epion2985]

Hook are ok. And I second the small torch love jin, I used one and they are great. Hate the big bulky one I have, totally not necessary. I love brazing small intricate things, there is something about brazing a joint as if it was 100k platinum ring.

I always thought big torches were for guys that try to compensate for something else walt :)

[Ssilencer]

Hi friends, i have a MAPP benrzomatic torch ,that give me a lot of happines, but sometimes give me headaches, when i have to braze large brass conectors aand evaporatorators.
Here in Brazil whe can find a complete oxy/acet setup for some like 400,00 dollars. Sincerly, i am not a phase buider (to sell), but is my hobby.
Is it woth the money ?
sorry my english.
Marvin


Oxi gas for U$S300 (http://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-51366127-conjunto-de-solda-ppu-_JM)

I think that is more than enough for hobby.

[wdrzal]

Hook are ok. And I second the small torch love jin, I used one and they are great. Hate the big bulky one I have, totally not necessary. I love brazing small intricate things, there is something about brazing a joint as if it was 100k platinum ring.

I always thought big torches were for guys that try to compensate for something else walt :)


Big boys play with bigger toys :D Time is money......those small torches are just playing.

those small things,well are for making rings,you know ,girl stuff.;)

[jinu117]

Sorry for being off topic to original poster.
Walt, I do know you have your taste. The fact is, it DOESN'T MAKE difference on brazing time with the small torch I have shown. Maybe if you want to do 3" diameter brazing, yes. But for anything less than 2", it really doesn't. If someone here can braze chilly1 evap in less than 3 minutes, show me otherwise. (induction brazing is excused)
I've used the size of torch you so dearly love, I've used the small torch, my conclusion is, for relevance of what we do, the small torch will be better choice if you can cope up with the cost. (yes, it is more expensive than most torches).
Maybe I haven't been clear... the largest tip that comes with the kit is equivalent to that of size #2 tip of regular torch in size of flame, etc. The only real difference would be the removal of unnecessary weight, bulk, very hard hose, etc, etc.

[wdrzal]

I,m not going to argue a subjective point.

But I can say through the years you will have favorite tools whether torches or pliers.

[wdrzal]

there is something about brazing a joint as if it was 100k platinum ring.

just info :24 karat or carat spelling is either way but 24 kt is like 99.99% pure whether gold or platinium.

sorrry no 100kt platinium;)

[Marvin]

Oxi gas for U$S300 (http://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-51366127-conjunto-de-solda-ppu-_JM)

I think that is more than enough for hobby.
thank you for the link, Mariano.
But that is an oxy/GLP torch. Not acetylen. Do you know the difference between then (Heat) ?
cheers

[Ssilencer]

thank you for the link, Mariano.
But that is an oxy/GLP torch. Not acetylen. Do you know the difference between then (Heat) ?
cheers

Not that much, and yes, that's why I told you it is more than enough, I have one of that Oxigas.


http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/7599/oxigasjq6.jpg

[Brettbeck]

Ehehe... keep an eye out guys. Will be selling one of my old torch set:P (no tanks though as it is illegal to send charged tanks). I am moving to jewler level torch in general since it is so much easier to move around while have capacity for up to #2 point tip for regular torch easily.
Honestly though, good tools always helps. There are even different grade of Mapp Torch AFAIK or straight air acetylene torches, etc.


This might be a little OT.

But it's annoying here in the UK, we were told that you can't buy the tanks, they all have to be rented :( . Do gas suppliers in the USA do that too? Or is it just certain palces that will sell you the bottles?

[jinu117]

Actually they sell bottles here. You just need to get it swapped and tanks need to be inspected every 7 years or 10 years or something. Not something I worry about as my tanks stay around tops 1 month really...

[Brettbeck]

1 month?! Is that it?!

The oxygen one I got is quoted at 8 hours continuous welding, so I really do not need to worry about how long it will last for brazing!

[jinu117]

Keep it in mind that I do make MANY units a month ;)

[DetroitAC]

Do gas suppliers in the USA do that too? Or is it just certain palces that will sell you the bottles?
I leased all of my bottles. If I need to move, i can just give them back to the company, plus they don't give me the same bottles. i give them back the empty bottle, and they give me a full one right away. i think the lease for my nitrogen bottle (100 cubic foot or so, about 5 feet tall) was $90US for 10 years or something like that.

[epion2985]

just info :24 karat or carat spelling is either way but 24 kt is like 99.99% pure whether gold or platinium.

sorrry no 100kt platinium;)

When I said 100k ring I mean $100,000 :)

[Xeon th MG Pony]

You can build a CNC, A friend all ready has, I been gathering parts for one, but then decided to go DC servo rout rather then steppers so slowed me down, any case it is quite doable and the L297 + L298 series controle/driver chips make steppers a breeze

[epion2985]

Yeah I have seen those "converted" mills, waste of time. No thanks, I will save a few grand for a decent cnc mill.

[Marvin]

So, oxy/acet or oxy Glp for home user?

[Duh]

[QUOTE=epion2985]Yeah I have seen those "converted" mills, waste of time. QUOTE]
as this one ? http://www.sixdesign.de/fraese.html :p:

[Xeon th MG Pony]

Converted? No I am talking about built from the word go and they arren't crap by fare, at least not if you put effort into it, my friend was cutting turbine blades with his for his modle jet engine, can't recall the metal, odd sounding name hard stuff, but the mill worked just dandy. Either way, what ever works for ya.

[Xeon th MG Pony]

[QUOTE=epion2985]Yeah I have seen those "converted" mills, waste of time. QUOTE]
as this one ? http://www.sixdesign.de/fraese.html :p:


Did you use opto encoders or pots? I was planning to use 4bit rotery optoncoders with some linear ones so it could calculate and compensate for any play in the deck system.

Kick ass rig BTW I am very impressed and hope to have mine come at least close to that good.

[Brettbeck]

So, oxy/acet or oxy Glp for home user?

By 'Glp' , I take it you ment LPG (propane etc)?

I would say yes, providing you are going to make several units and are willing to put in a few £. If you want a cheaper method, MAPP gas and a small torch is probably cheaper in the short run.

[epion2985]

Converted? No I am talking about built from the word go and they arren't crap by fare, at least not if you put effort into it, my friend was cutting turbine blades with his for his modle jet engine, can't recall the metal, odd sounding name hard stuff, but the mill worked just dandy. Either way, what ever works for ya.

No thanks. I rather pay for a certified precision product then hope and pray my own handy work will cut it.

As for "hard material" that has little to do with mill quality. Any mill can cut any material, just a matter of having a tool that will be up to it and setting the speed right as to not break it.

[Xeon th MG Pony]

Well that turbine blade was spinning at probly just over 100,000RPM and didn't vibrate other then the expected amound for such a beast, the encoders to anny needed compinsation. It is any other machine good workmanship and due attention = percission machine. As to hard material you need some thing that can move the tool and spin it too the bit by its self will just sit there ;)

[epion2985]

Exactly, thats why I would rather buy a precision product the try to wing it myself. In any case my time is better spent on more important things then building tools.

[Ssilencer]

Guys, Marvin is looking for advice on buying a new brazing equipment, not a CNC machine ;)
Oh and btw, A little stupid to spend us5000 in a pro cnc just to play...

[epion2985]

Oh and btw, A little stupid to spend us5000 in a pro cnc just to play...

No one said it was for play. But regardless weather you think its stupid is completely irrelevant as thats personal opinion. Some people think its stupid to phase cool computers, build unnecessary controllers for it and be a geek posting on a forum. Want to go on? People spend far more then lousy 5k on their hobbies and "toys".

[Marvin]

Guys, Marvin is looking for advice on buying a new brazing equipment, not a CNC machine ;)
Oh and btw, A little stupid to spend us5000 in a pro cnc just to play...
thank you Mariano. I will try this oxy/glp torch. Oxy/acet is a lot expensive for me...
regards.