Nvidia + AMD (ATI) subpoena

[Eastcoasthandle]

First it was Opti suing AMD (http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/11/17/opti_sues_amd/) for patent infringement. Next, AMD's dual FX-74 (http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/amd_athlon_64_fx_74_4x4/) cpu's lag behind C2Q (except a few RC benchmarks (http://tinyurl.com/yc3hta)). And now, the DOJ’s investigation into potential antitrust violations (http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/VirtualPressRoom/0,,51_104_543~114493,00.html) related to graphics processors and cards (along with Nvidia. (http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/ticker/article.aspx?Feed=OBR&Date=20061201&ID=6241591&Symbol=INTC)).
read the link (http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/ticker/article.aspx?Feed=OBR&Date=20061201&ID=6241591&Symbol=INTC)
The subpoenas spooked investors, with Nvidia shares falling $1.68, or 4.5 percent, to $35.31 in busy Nasdaq trade. AMD shares fell $1.13, or 5.2 percent, to $20.45 on the New York Stock Exchange. Intel shares fell 2.8 percent to $20.80 on the Nasdaq.

[[XC] Teroedni]

Hmm its time to get ready for investment.
I mised the last time when Amd jumped from 20-40.
So if this greatly affect Amd stock prices i may be able to get a good deal here:D

[DilTech]

Opti suing AMD, lower then expected benchmark scores using 2 FX-74s and now DOJ. Well, it looks like the DOJ has subpoena AMD regarding investigation of graphic processors and cards. Although the 1st 2 aren't to bad however, being subpoena by the DOJ doesn't sound good at all. I wonder if this will affect AMD's stock prices?
source (http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/VirtualPressRoom/0,,51_104_543~114493,00.html)

How would they have an anti-trust case on AMD being in the graphics game...

I don't see this one going anywhere.

[nn_step]

How would they have an anti-trust case on AMD being in the graphics game...

I don't see this one going anywhere.
AMD=ATi

[Starscream]

that doesnt really mean that they are after AMD/ATI.

it could also mean that they are after another company and thye think AMD/ATi has evidence that they need.

[onewingedangel]

This is just fallout from the merger. It was to be expected, and will unlikely be a big deal.

[vitaminc]

both AMD (ATI) and NVDA have received the subpeona, probably because the hike in discrete GPU/graphics card prices over the years.

the justice department has create problems for themselves to solve otherwise they and their lawyer friends be out of jobs.

[DilTech]

AMD=ATi

What I mean is this...

There's no monopoly, there's no overpowering market share...

The only place this could be going is if NVidia and ATi were price-fixing their cores so that neither brand brought down their prices too much so as to create an artificially high price.

[nn_step]

seems unlikely given the constantly rising costs of developing a GPU

[Eastcoasthandle]

I wonder how Nvidia and AMD are related in an anti-trust investigation?

[bachus_anonym]

I wonder how Nvidia and AMD are related in an anti-trust investigation?They both hold now about half of the GPU chips and cards market, with Intel having the other - that's why :) So, chances are, Intel might also get subpoenaed... unless it was Intel that gave "a word" to DOJ, after AMD merged with ATI...
I guess, we'll know more soon, although it's probably another of the shots DOJ is taking at potential price-fixing schemes, similar to the one that involved memory makers...

[situman]

Memory makers been doing this price fixing crap for years. Bring them down and they come back and do it again.

[Vapor]

Is this news related to the one from ~2 weeks ago?

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=123706

If not, damn....if yes, still damn

[Eastcoasthandle]

Is this news related to the one from ~2 weeks ago?

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=123706

If not, damn....if yes, still damn
I think that's another issue AMD has to sort out. Now AMD has to sort out an anti-trust investigation and that's not good news at all. From what I read Nvidia and AMD now hold something like 50% of the market while Intel holds the other 1/2. If intel is not called in the investigation it maybe obvious what's going on. But as it stands right now it's hard to say. What can be said is that Nvidia and AMD where both subpoena the same day. There is no reason not to subpoena Intel the same day if they are in anyway involved IMO.

[Eastcoasthandle]

Examples of illegal practices are price-fixing conspiracies, corporate mergers likely to reduce the competitive vigor of particular markets, and predatory acts designed to achieve or maintain monopoly power.
link (http://www.answers.com/topic/antitrust)

[Thorry]

AFAIK this is standard for any bigger merger, nothing to worry about.

All the subpoena says is: We are going to investigate this merger, you will have to cooperate.

AMD said: Sure we'll give you whatever you need.

No biggy, but it seems a sport to bring all AMD news (small or large) into the media as a big thing... :(

[xlink]

What I mean is this...

There's no monopoly, there's no overpowering market share...

The only place this could be going is if NVidia and ATi were price-fixing their cores so that neither brand brought down their prices too much so as to create an artificially high price.
and how much do cards cost now?

[vitaminc]

They both hold now about half of the GPU chips and cards market, with Intel having the other - that's why :) So, chances are, Intel might also get subpoenaed... unless it was Intel that gave "a word" to DOJ, after AMD merged with ATI...
I guess, we'll know more soon, although it's probably another of the shots DOJ is taking at potential price-fixing schemes, similar to the one that involved memory makers...


If you talking about intergrated MCP, then yes, Intel has over half of the market.

If you are talking about discrete, then no, Intel isn't in that particular market.

AMD + ATI could have some bundling impact on Nvidia's notebook discrete GPU sales, although the 3Q market share reports saying otherwise.

[rozzyroz]

i bet it has something to do with amd and nvidia working so close together, and staggering the release of their high end graphics cards. this allows each of them to charge top dollar for a period of time. they are working too close together to be considered standard competitors... they are the only 2 players in the high end graphics segment.

[Eastcoasthandle]

AFAIK this is standard for any bigger merger, nothing to worry about.

All the subpoena says is: We are going to investigate this merger, you will have to cooperate.

AMD said: Sure we'll give you whatever you need.

No biggy, but it seems a sport to bring all AMD news (small or large) into the media as a big thing... :(
I think this is a little off base since it involved Nvidia now.

[Lithan]

Average dollar spent on gfx card took a huge spike up in the past couple years I'd wager... Feds probably suspect price fixing... and unless they get a cut of the action, that's a no-no.

[Think]

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,2066727,00.asp

Two of the largest names in the graphics chip industry were both hit with antitrust subpoenas over the past two days by the Department of Justice.

In a statement released on Friday, chip maker Nvidia said it had received a subpoena from the San Francisco Office of the DOJ's Antitrust Division regarding possible violations relating to the company's graphics processing units and cards.

It seems the details are scant but I bet it's related to price fixing.

[ZX7891]

old

[Tanktanium]

old

What a thoughtful and interesting contribution to the topic at hand. I congratulate you, sir.

It was posted today, and I'm not surprised.

[Lithan]

Repost, Merged with the origional thread... in...
Now

[dinos22]

so WHY did they get a subpoena

[nn_step]

so WHY did they get a subpoena
Because the department of Justice thinks ATi and nVidia are price fixing and working together to eliminate competition in the market place. Citing the absence of heavy competition in the graphics market during the rein of 7800GTX

[dinos22]

Because the department of Justice thinks ATi and nVidia are price fixing and working together to eliminate competition in the market place. Citing the absence of heavy competition in the graphics market during the rein of 7800GTX
oh i see

they must have proof to issue subpoenas like that hmmm

[nn_step]

oh i see

they must have proof to issue subpoenas like that hmmm
nope, no proof required. Just a half ass reason or idea that a judge may believe.

[Think]

nope, no proof required. Just a half ass reason or idea that a judge may believe.

Well I wouldn't be surprised if there was price fixing. Given the price of these unit's it begs to question ( which is what they are doing ) if there is price fixing.

[aMp]

Hold yer horses. I don't see what everybody's getting so pissy about. The subpoenas are part of a probe of anticompetitive practices, i.e. finding out what's going on. I can't see why anybody would be too upset about a government agency actually trying to to its job, as rare as that's been recently.

I personally don't think the GPU market is anticompetitive, but there are certainly reasons to suspect as much. In the discrete market (as of Q2 2006) you've got NV at 51% and ATI at 48%; in the overall market, including integrated and mobile solutions, Intel had 40%, ATI 28% and NV 20%. In almost any other field than computer tech, that's ridiculously overconcentrated.

To put it in perspective: In evaluating mergers, the Federal Trade Commission uses a shorthand index to calculate how concentrated a market is, called the Herfindahl-Hirschman Index (HHI), simply squaring the market share of each participant. HHI results over 1,800 "raise significant competitive concerns." Do the math, and the discrete graphics card market is around 4,900, and the overall market around 2800.

So, you've got a two- or three-player market. Also, there's nothing about the tech industry that prevents price-fixing or other cartel behavior -- witness the memory market, where Samsung, Micron, Infineon and Hynix forced consumers to take it deep for a couple years.

Because of the speed with which the GPU market moves and the tech advances, I don't think there's a problem. But let's not act like there's no reason to keep an eye on things.

[P_1]

amp check your pm's

[p0tter]

Bring the prices DOWN !