e6600 or 8800gtx

[lookmomnobrains]

gone be building a computer really soon... waiting for g80 to drop for a long time now :stick:

only not to sure what to choose...
options:
1:.. e6600 + 8800gts
2:.. e6400 + 8800gtx

building it primary for gaming.. bud also some photoshoping/3d work.. already got me a enermax liberty 620w so power shouldn’t be a problem :stick:

also need some help whit the mb... lol im not going to go multy vga any time soon.. so don’t need 2pci-e lanes...

1:.. Asus P5B-E Plus (€ 157,95)
2:.. Asus P5B-E (€ 144,00)
3:.. Asus P5B Deluxe (€ 176,00)
4:.. Asus P5B (€ 124,50)
5:.. GigaByte GA-965P-DS4 (€ 160,50)
6:.. GigaByte GA-965P-DS3 (€ 145,00)
7:.. any other c2d mb available at www.sallandautomatisering.nl (http://www.sallandautomatisering.nl/content/catproducts.php?catId=435&newcat=0&wizard=)

thinking of getting a Asus P5B-E plus.. but not to sure about how it oc's

Looking to run about 400mhz stable on air… or a little les if 400 is to much for on air… not gone go wc.. and wont be cascade building for some years lol (still studying mechanical engineering (that is what I thing its called in English lol)) don’t have to much money to waist still a student and gone be for some years :D .. so cheap would be nice.. lol

[metro.cl]

e6600 + 8800gts will be better

[rithina]

If u going for P5B, 6400 is the way to go :)
I will also prefer 6400 + 8800GTX.

[perkam]

Asus P5B Deluxe
8800GTS
e6400

Perkam

[menlatin]

I say 6400, gtx, p5b-deluxe and you should be able to do 400mhz fsb easily on air.

[lookmomnobrains]

Asus P5B Deluxe
8800GTS
e6400

Perkam

thats not 1 of the options :p:

price wise:
e6600 + 8800gts = € 763,44
e6400 + 8800gtx = € 805,94

[ANP !!!]

P5B deluxe + E6400 + 8800GTX will be a hell of a Set up.

[Rattle]

6400 and 8800gtx

[lookmomnobrains]

any one seen the 8800gts numbers yet? would like to see what a 8800gts would to and how much % is looses agents a gtx

[metro.cl]

any one seen the 8800gts numbers yet? would like to see what a 8800gts would to and how much % is looses agents a gtx

not yet, the thing is that a 8800gtx is really limited by cpu speed, so putting together a 8800gtx with a 6400 is a non sense (even if overclocked to 8x400 or 8x450) you need more than 3.6GHz to unleash the power of a 8800GTX.

[J-Mag]

not yet, the thing is that a 8800gtx is really limited by cpu speed, so putting together a 8800gtx with a 6400 is a non sense (even if overclocked to 8x400 or 8x450) you need more than 3.6GHz to unleash the power of a 8800GTX.

Uhh no. I see this generalization all the time, and no offense but it is stupid.

IT DEPENDS ON THE GAME AND SETTINGS!!!

Even then you don't need high CPU speed for older games because they are fast enough as is. Essentially you only need about 2ghz AMD or 1.8Ghz C2D to run most games on the market. There are a few exceptions where CPU speed helps, but not many. If you are talking about 3dmark as the only "game" you are playing, then I will concede.

[Rattle]

well there's really no cpu for 8800gtx unless you OC quadcore to 4.0 and then only in benchmarks, I am curious to see performance between gts and gtx, if the bottleneck is so severe then more card power is pointless after a point obviously, so theoretically the cards should score close in 3dmarks and fps if being pushed by say a e6600.

[JPeitzman]

I would really like to know how the GTS performs as well, seeing as I am looking at getting one. Though a GTX is really tempting with 100+FPS at 1600x1200 with 4xAA and 16xAF in Half-Life 2 ( http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=121785 )

I am really hoping that the GTS can pull off around 80 or so at the same settings. I think that it might be pointless to get a 8800GTX with a X2 4200 or something like that, but with a e6400, it will be game dependent, but it shouldn't really hold it back that much. As for my choice I would get the e6400 and the 8800GTX.

Though I know it is not a option, and it isn't out yet, but you could look into something like the 680i for the motherboard. That is what I am looking at because I have heard that it will do 500fsb, supports FSB 1333, and is very feature packed, it looks like a killer board. It should be out right when the G80's are, and should be around 200-250USD, so about the same as a 975X. Just something to consider, I am sure to that since they are kind of release partners a G80 and 680i will pair very very nicely.

[perkam]

thats not 1 of the options :p:

price wise:
e6600 + 8800gts = € 763,44
e6400 + 8800gtx = € 805,94Save your money pal...lower price you can get a good mobo+ 8800 + conroe...the better...maybe spend a tad more on psu...

Perkam

[lookmomnobrains]

Save your money pal...lower price you can get a good mobo+ 8800 + conroe...the better...maybe spend a tad more on psu...

Perkam

.... already got me a enermax liberty 620w at cheap (it has got a little dent (at the back corner) in it so it was 50 euros cheaper lol) so kind of see no pont and geting a other :stick:

I think ill go whit:
e6600
8800gts
P5B Deluxe
:stick: (lol love that smily :stick: )

[SlyMaelstrom]

I think ill go whit:
e6600
8800gts
P5B DeluxeI agree with this choice. As others have said, the CPU will likely be bottle-necking the GTX's performance. How much, we really can't know for sure, yet... and there is a pretty decent difference between a 6600 and a 6400. With this setup, you'll be more than happy with your gaming and you'll be better off when it comes to things that don't require a GPU like file compression and what have you...


IT DEPENDS ON THE GAME AND SETTINGS!!!I agree with this point. In fact, why bother getting a 6400 or a GTX... I'd say just get a Pentium 2, a GeForce 2, and Windows 95 and play Wolfenstein 3D on low settings to your heart's content!

[thunderstruck!]

Seriously, don't even get the E6400. The E6300 overclocks the same, if not better.

[perkam]

Seriously, don't even get the E6400. The E6300 overclocks the same, if not better.True...not to mention the 620W liberty is quite powerful...

Perkam

[***Deimos***]

Personally,
P5B or P5B-E (if you really need firewire.. you seriously DONT need DELUXE or other crazy extravagence like that)
2GB DDR2-667 (higher mem speed brings very very little extra performance)
E6300 (if planing to run gaming rig, ~3.2Ghz should be abundant... E6400 would be good if you got cheap mobo which cant clock fsb so high... if you are really going to use this for photoshop, premier, cinebench, lightwave etc.. get quad core)

[SlyMaelstrom]

Personally,
P5B or P5B-E (if you really need firewire.. you seriously DONT need DELUXE or other crazy extravagence like that)As far as I know, the Deluxe is the only one that proved to be an extremely good OCer from that line, I believe the non-Deluxe falls far short of it and it's competitors.
2GB DDR2-667 (higher mem speed brings very very little extra performance)I'm also pretty sure this is very untrue as all good overclocking rigs I've seen expect at least DDR2-800
if you are really going to use this for photoshop, premier, cinebench, lightwave etc.. get quad core)From what I heard, the Quad-Cores prices won't even be comparable to an E6400 or 6300. The cheaper Quad is supposed to be launched at $850 in Q1 of next year.

[Noob-ftw]

E6300 and the 8800GTX would be a good suggestion.

[Vapor]

Another reason to get high clocking RAM: Intel's 965 doesn't have any down dividers for RAM speed. Your board and CPU may do 500FSB, but ain't gonna do jack if your RAM can't run at 500MHz...

[lookmomnobrains]

chois till now is still:
e6600
8800gts
P5B Deluxe

+ 2* A-data DDR2-800 1024mb (sins the aren’t to expensive and ddr2 prices are just crazy… (no d9’s do :( but the should be fine for the 400fsb I’m looking for…))
+ Thermaltake Big Typhoon as cooler (any bigger just does not fit im me case :stick: )

that would be it.. unless someone has any better suggestions :stick:

[perkam]

Meow ? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820148017

Perkam

[lookmomnobrains]

Meow ? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820148017

Perkam

Location: Hollanda... so no nice newegg for me.. and no nice prices :( a kit of d9s woud set me back about 275+ euro from what i can tell/see and them a-data's about 220 euro..

edit:.... this tread can be closed or something.. (made my decision.. and thnx for all the help)

[***Deimos***]

I recall quite a few sites reviewing P5B and P5B-E and getting at least like 450-500fsb... isn't that enough?

(I'm assuming we're building this rig for gaming.. like Crysis, UT2007, etc.. and not SuperPI kind of overclocking, and thus spending lots of $$$ on GTS and only cheap E6300).

BTW, what ever happened with Asus P5B motherboards being able to change multipliers. Is that true? Both up an down. On all processors? (it would allow you to use cheap DDR2-667 with high CPU clocks)

EDIT: I dont have Core2 Duo system yet, so let me know if I got this straight in my head...
C2D have 4:3(400), 1:1 (533), 4:5 (667), 2:3 (800), and 1:2 (1067) dividers, right?

If you have RAM that can only go up to DDR2-667, using 4:3, you're limited to 444.6 fsb (x7 for E6300 = 3100Mhz)

If you have RAM that can go up to DDR2-800, then using 4:3 would limit you to 533 fsb which is plenty(3.7Ghz), but you'd probably run 1:1 up to 400fsb for better performance (limiting E6300 to 7x400=2.8Ghz)

[kcdrummer]

anandtech made a statement recently that you will see much more performance from a better graphics card than the cpu.

[Brahmzy]

Keep in mind that the 8800GTX is extremely CPU limited...so the faster your C2D, the more you'll see out your 8800GTX. I wonder how much the 4mb cache comes into play with a high-end GPU. I'd get the E6600 and the 8800GTX. Oh wait, I AM getting that. :)

[eXa]

A friend of mine got ds3 6400 and 800mhz ram. He aint no hardcore overclocker so this was a nice setup. Hes running it @ 400fsb of course with ram 1:1. Like that the ram runs at stock and cpu at 3,2Ghz. Onlu thing he needed to do was bump the voltage to cpu 1 step and make shure the ram ran 1:1

I would say thats a pretty smart setup!

[***Deimos***]

anandtech made a statement recently that you will see much more performance from a better graphics card than the cpu.

anandtech has made that statement every year, since like 1999. The last time I can recall that CPU's ever made a huge difference, AMD's K6 was struggling to catch up to P3, Cyrix was out for the count, and digital cameras were just a vision in the research lab.

Brahmzy... I wouldn't worry about being CPU limited. You can make up for it by turning up higher game quality and AA. Afterall, lower the resolution the more CPU speed you need. And I hardly think folks will be buying 8800GTX to play Quake3 in 640x480!!

[MrDeeds]

BTW, what ever happened with Asus P5B motherboards being able to change multipliers. Is that true? Both up an down. On all processors? (it would allow you to use cheap DDR2-667 with high CPU clocks)


Unfounded claims. Nobody that i have heard of so far has been able to go up on the multiplier on any retail c2d other than the x6800.


I recall quite a few sites reviewing P5B and P5B-E and getting at least like 450-500fsb... isn't that enough?

EDIT: I dont have Core2 Duo system yet, so let me know if I got this straight in my head...
C2D have 4:3(400), 1:1 (533), 4:5 (667), 2:3 (800), and 1:2 (1067) dividers, right?

If you have RAM that can only go up to DDR2-667, using 4:3, you're limited to 444.6 fsb (x7 for E6300 = 3100Mhz)

If you have RAM that can go up to DDR2-800, then using 4:3 would limit you to 533 fsb which is plenty(3.7Ghz), but you'd probably run 1:1 up to 400fsb for better performance (limiting E6300 to 7x400=2.8Ghz)

Intel P965 Dividers = CPU:DRAM: 1:1, 1:3, 2:3, 1:1, 4:5, 3:4, 3:5

As vapor stated the intel p965 only has upward dividers so the any ram your using has to at least be able to do 1:1 which would equal ddr2-800 at 400fsb. But most people are expecting alot more than that especially from an allendale on a P5b deluxe so you'd have to get ram thats pretty much going to be good through ddr2-1000 and there arent that many ddr2-667 kits that'll hit that stable. Almost all decent ddr2-800 D9 memory will at least do ddr2-900 which will give you up to 450fsb to work with.

Ps: The crucial 10th anniversery ddr2-667 cas3 is about the only ddr-667 memory i recommend if your trying to hit ddr2-1000.

Back Ot- I vote 6600 - Gts - waiting to see what 680i boards do

[N15M0]

I have a setup of 6600 with 8800GTX. At stock settings, the 6600 is already bottlenecking the 8800GTX. I predict it would needsat least a 3ghz conroe to unleash its full potential. :)

[Steensen]

Uhh no. I see this generalization all the time, and no offense but it is stupid.

IT DEPENDS ON THE GAME AND SETTINGS!!!

Even then you don't need high CPU speed for older games because they are fast enough as is. Essentially you only need about 2ghz AMD or 1.8Ghz C2D to run most games on the market. There are a few exceptions where CPU speed helps, but not many. If you are talking about 3dmark as the only "game" you are playing, then I will concede.
Ohh so true.
If your display isn't capable of atleast 1600*1200/1680*1040, then the CPUis going to become the bottlenec with a 8800 card, even with all AA/AF set to max, in 95% of the games. Same problem with X19xx CF and 79xxGTX SLI.

So My recommendation will also be the E6600, 8800GTS, P5B-Delux and 2*1GB DDR2-800C4 RAM, then you shuold be able to hit FSB500 (500*7, maybe 500*8), since you can lower the multi on the E6600 on the P5B MoBo.

[***Deimos***]

Each game has a different dependence on CPU and GPU. A different ratio. It depends on how much work CPU/GPU have to do and how well the game is optimized.

Majority of first person shooters are more GPU dependent because of little calculations required by CPU and more special effects, wheras RTS which control AI for hundreds of units and have simplistic 3D graphics are more CPU limited. Likewise with most flight simulations which use very CPU computationally intensive model.

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/battlefield_2142_cpu_shootout/page4.asp

***the top graph***

This is what you will typically see at low resolutions. There are so few pixels for the GPU to render, it is waiting on the CPU to send it more jobs to do. At these lowest resolution/quality settings, a GPU thats twice as fast would typically still give the same FPS. But, almost nobody plays at these settings, because we're all spoiled by high resolution LCDs and 4xAA and ultra high texture settings.

***the bottom graph***

Given some set video card, for each resolution, there will be some magic CPU speed beyond which a faster CPU doesn't help, and only way to improve FPS is faster video card. The lower resolution, the less work for the GPU and the faster the CPU required to max out the video card. Conversely, by setting very high resolution/game quality/AA to dramatically increase the workload for the video card, even low end CPU will be twidling its thumbs waiting for the busy GPU to finish.

IN OTHER WORDS:
You DONT buy a 8800GTX to play Quake3 800x600 at 1000fps.
You BUY a 8800GTX to allow you to play Oblivion/GR:AWF/Crysis/etc.. comfortably at higher resolutions, with higer game quality settings and higher levels of AA/AF.

EDIT: are you sure there are no < 1:1 ratio for Core 2 Duo?
http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/memory/ddr2/2006/gskill-ddr2-800/performance.html
there must be a 4:3 if you want to run DDR2-400 with standard 533FSB.

EDIT2: I bet you all the G80 reviews will focus almost exclusively at using Core 2 Duo > 2.6ghz, 1600x1200 and up, and will run at least 4xAA (tryin out the new 16xAA).

[SlyMaelstrom]

EDIT2: I bet you all the G80 reviews will focus almost exclusively at using Core 2 Duo > 2.6ghz, 1600x1200 and up, and will run at least 4xAA (tryin out the new 16xAA).Most benchmark reviews for GPUs tend to use the top of the line CPU and top of the line RAM, which means they'll all be using either the X6800 or the QX6700 to benchmark. The RAM will either be the top of the line OCZ, Corsair, G-Skill, or Mushkin RAM.

As for Oblivion... with my system specs (in my sig) I play with 75% Fade distances, 100% view distance and specular distance, 1440x900 resolution, large textures, water, blood, and shadow settings max, and HDR lighting and I rarely go below 20 FPS. This is fine for me, because it's rarely jumpy and looks great. So, I'm sure a 6600 with an 8800GTS will have no problems playing Oblivion all maxed with great FPS. I just hope it's capable of HDR and AA4x like it should be.

Those cards will own the games that are already out. The question is the performance on Crysis and the other games coming out (like Two Days to Vegas, woot woot)

[MrDeeds]

EDIT: are you sure there are no < 1:1 ratio for Core 2 Duo?
http://images.anandtech.com/reviews/memory/ddr2/2006/gskill-ddr2-800/performance.html
there must be a 4:3 if you want to run DDR2-400 with standard 533FSB.


Im not saying there is no c2d board that doesnt have down dividers, what i said was that the intel P965 and 975X boards dont have them.

Im sure the nvidia and via boards offer them but i cant confirm or deny that since i havent had any personal experience with them and not too many people that oc run those boards because they of their fsb constraints.

[***Deimos***]

from the test setup page (previous page)

ASUS P5W-DH Deluxe (Intel 975X)

I dunno... maybe anandtech has like a special full featured bios or something..?