JonnyGuru Reviews Seasonic M12-700W !!

[perkam]

http://www.jonnyguru.com/PSU/M12-700/

The PSU that just keeps giving :D 80% efficiency at 712W :O

Perkam

[nn_step]

well the 12v ripple seems just fine to me
http://www.jonnyguru.com/PSU/M12-700/Oscope/Test6-12V.jpg
I just wish it was more like this
http://www.jonnyguru.com/PSU/NUUO550/Oscope/Test5-12V2.jpg
But that is probably asking too much for that price for that amount of power

[Shift]

But that is probably asking too much for that price for that amount of power

Very true. I thought it was quad rails but it seems that it isn't?

You can get a Silverstone Zeus 750w for that price.

[Helmore]

I thinks that it is a good thing for it not being a quad rail, this makes rail distribution a non existing problem which is always nice.

[XSAlliN]

I gues it's enough for that price plus is very quiet excelent for a Silent PC ;)

[CPLB]

I gues it's enough for that price plus is very quiet excelent for a Silent PC ;)

I dunno, Jonny said in the review that during high loads the PSU was exausting air as hot as 62C!! (in the hot box) I'm sure the fans were spinning at full blast!


By test four, both fans were spinning at full RPM and the PSU could no longer be called "silent."... I was a bit surprised with the noise.

Anyway, awesome review by JonnyGuru :)

[safan80]

Very true. I thought it was quad rails but it seems that it isn't?

You can get a Silverstone Zeus 750w for that price.


I have a Silverstone Zeus 650 watt and the fan is the loudest thing in my system and it drives me nuts. I'm going to get the seasonic 700 Watt. the 600 watt seasonic that my friend has is very quiet.

[krille]

Can we hope for an upcoming Seasonic S12 Energy+650 (http://www.seasonicusa.com/s12plus.htm) review as well?

It should perform better yet, perhaps 12v ripple good enough even for nn, and be quieter still (one less 60mm fan, higher efficiency) seeing as it's officially 80PLUS certified and not modular. Except for the whole 650 instead of 700 part of course. Still 650 is plenty and if it isn't enough, you probably wouldn't have settled with 700 anyway.

Great review as always, Johnny! :toast:

~ Kris

[xenolith]

well the 12v ripple seems just fine to me
http://www.jonnyguru.com/PSU/M12-700/Oscope/Test6-12V.jpg
I just wish it was more like this
http://www.jonnyguru.com/PSU/NUUO550/Oscope/Test5-12V2.jpg
But that is probably asking too much for that price for that amount of power

Well, at least the M12-700 is much better than the OCZ Gamexstream 700w. :eek:
http://www.jonnyguru.com/PSU/GameXStream700/Oscope/Test6-12V2.jpg

[nn_step]

Amen to that dude

[Revv23]

Another good review jonny! :)

I like that you actually overloaded the unit, i like to see companies that underspec their stuff.

[dab420]

I would like to see Johnny review the FSP Epsilon 700W for comparison..


very nice review and testing methodology.

[CPLB]

Well, at least the M12-700 is much better than the OCZ Gamexstream 700w. :eek:


What's interesting is that the Corsair 620 is made by Seasonic too and it has some high ripple:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y268/lbrycecp/Test5-12V3.jpg


I would like to see Johnny review the FSP Epsilon 700W for comparison..

very nice review and testing methodology.

The FSP Epsilon is basically the OCZ GameXtreme 700w. (... actually the other way around.)

[krille]

CPLB, on the other hand Seasonic's made PSU:s for PCP&C in the past as well. They probably do like any other company, simply deliver what's ordered.

I still wonder about S12 Energy+ though? :)

~ Kris

[dab420]

[snip]The FSP Epsilon is basically the OCZ GameXtreme 700w. (... actually the other way around.)

I've used both, but as there are subtle differences between the two, there is a chance that the results will be different. I am not positive, but afaik these two similar units aren't exactly the same.
I was just hoping for a clear answer; ie: are they or are they not exactly the same - results wise. Is there a ripple?!?

[cadaveca]

Slightly less ripple on the FSP in my case, but also less voltage on 5v and 3.3v lines..i just assumed it was choice of zener diode(voltage rectifier).

[Poodle]

I've got one. It's really nice. :)

[MaxxxRacer]

very nice review. but what is the scale on the scope readings. the large bars are how many mv?

[Helmore]

Horizontal: 2ms
Vertical: 50mV

[Poodle]

Can we hope for an upcoming Seasonic S12 Energy+650 (http://www.seasonicusa.com/s12plus.htm) review as well? ~ Kris



http://www.silentpcreview.com/article656-page1.html

[jonnyGURU]

I've used both, but as there are subtle differences between the two, there is a chance that the results will be different. I am not positive, but afaik these two similar units aren't exactly the same.
I was just hoping for a clear answer; ie: are they or are they not exactly the same - results wise. Is there a ripple?!?

Bump/Blast from the past!

Hi all...

Just an FYI: The Epsilon does have just as much ripple. I have the 600W And tested it for a special review we're doing. We loaded up, measured and will be replacing the caps on an FSP Epsilon and Antec NeoPower to see if the ripple is improved after the caps were replaced. I've got all the caps I need but one, so hopefully the review will be up mid next month. :D

[Sparky]

It'll be interesting to see if cap replacement is all it needs. If so... then dangit FSP change your caps! :slapass:

[nn_step]

oooh, now that'll be an interesting test.

[EnJoY]

The ripple is most likely due to it being modular and hence allowing much more noise into the current.

[Sparky]

The ripple is most likely due to it being modular and hence allowing much more noise into the current.
The FSP Epsilons aren't modular. Modular isn't at fault here.

[JPeitzman]

Can't wait to see what recapping does, I am thinking about doing this myself. I did mention it earlier in the PSU section, I know OKWolf said he was recapping an OCZ, same one that will be used in your "special review" or different? Good review of the Seasonic BTW!

[Sparky]

With the talk about recapping those PSUs, I'm wondering, the Antec TruepowerII series from what I've read is a good design, has stable rails, and is quiet. The only real complaint about them is the fuhjyyu caps in them. Would it be worth recapping one of those antecs? Namely.. my own? Or should I just use it and replace it when I get enough money with something else, like the corsair unit?

[xenolith]

It's probably been asked many times before, but could we be making too much of these ripple issues? Isn't slow hardware deaths a major symptom of high ripple? I haven't heard of any complaints around these FSP/OCZ 600/700 watt PSUs damaging hardware. Has anyone else? Yes, we'd all like stable, low ripple, I'm just wondering if it's that critical, even if it's tickling the specification line.

Personally, I've had my FSP FX700-GLN for nearly a year now (see sig) and haven't had so much as a hiccup.

[nn_step]

It's probably been asked many times before, but could we be making too much of these ripple issues? Isn't slow hardware deaths a major symptom of high ripple? I haven't heard of any complaints around these FSP/OCZ 600/700 watt PSUs damaging hardware. Has anyone else? Yes, we'd all like stable, low ripple, I'm just wondering if it's that critical, even if it's tickling the specification line.

Personally, I've had my FSP FX700-GLN for nearly a year now (see sig) and haven't had so much as a hiccup.
if there is NO ripple, then the processor will be that extra bit more stable and help us get even better overclocks :fact:

[exhausted mule]

it would be like trying to drink orange juice in the morning with a hole in your straw. it does the trick, but it'll take you longer, be out of breath and probably frustrated to all hell after a week.


cleaner is allways better.

just imagine trying to overclock your processor on flutacting temps :0

[xenolith]

if there is NO ripple, then the processor will be that extra bit more stable and help us get even better overclocks :fact:

Ahh... thanks... I didn't know that. I thought all this hubbub with ripple was stress it may cause on hardware, especially voltage regulators...

[Revv23]

Bump/Blast from the past!

Hi all...

Just an FYI: The Epsilon does have just as much ripple. I have the 600W And tested it for a special review we're doing. We loaded up, measured and will be replacing the caps on an FSP Epsilon and Antec NeoPower to see if the ripple is improved after the caps were replaced. I've got all the caps I need but one, so hopefully the review will be up mid next month. :D


i cant wait for that!!!

It could breath some much needed life into my GXS.

[Revv23]

Ahh... thanks... I didn't know that. I thought all this hubbub with ripple was stress it may cause on hardware, especially voltage regulators...

yeah its not as big a deal as people make it out to be but when other psu's in the price range dont have the issue why would you not go for the low ripple model?

Certainly if you and i had looked up more info on the units we would not be owning our current psu's right now.

[jinu117]

Finally... someone comes with review of not much talked about Seasonic :) They make top quality PSU and has been for over a decade now. As for PC&P being supplied by Seasonic, that is news to me as their main supplier used to be Zippy. Now, Seasonic and Zippy, 2 PSU companies I can always recommend :)

[zakelwe]

I think that someday someone should test overclockability of a cpu with a psu that has bad ripple and one that has good ripple and see what the difference is.

I'm betting it will be very small indeed ( just a hunch ). I'd think Mr J. Guru would be the man for the job though !

Regards

Andy

[syne_24]

I heard Seas is planning to make a high-end psu soon. Apparently there has been a lot of request for one. I cant wait, I think it will give a lot of competitors a run for their money.

[Nosfer@tu]

Or maybe Seasonic just dosent produce higher than 700 Watt because It causes to much rippels.

Biggest thing about rippels will be livespann of your hardware :)

[v0dka]

I think that someday someone should test overclockability of a cpu with a psu that has bad ripple and one that has good ripple and see what the difference is.

I'm betting it will be very small indeed ( just a hunch ). I'd think Mr J. Guru would be the man for the job though !

Regards

Andy

That would definately deserve some testing time. :fact:

[dinos22]

best PSU reviewer out there :toast:

[[XC] Teroedni]

if there is NO ripple, then the processor will be that extra bit more stable and help us get even better overclocks :fact:

That makes sense, but dosent it have a lot to do with the motherboard as well?
I guess the same apply for the ram.

[jonnyGURU]

The ripple is most likely due to it being modular and hence allowing much more noise into the current.

:eek:

As has been mentioned; Neither GameXstream nor Epsilon are modular.

Furthermore, a modular interface would not add ripple. It would effect regulation as the resistance added by the modular connection would cause a slight (very slight) voltage drop.

But ripple? No. Unless there was some serious RF interference somewhere near the build.

[jonnyGURU]

They make top quality PSU and has been for over a decade now. As for PC&P being supplied by Seasonic, that is news to me as their main supplier used to be Zippy.

PC Power and Cooling have NEVER been made by Zippy.

The Silencers are made by Seasonic. The Turbo-Cools are made by Win-Tact.

Before the Turbo-Cools came out, the Silencer used to be made by FSP/SPI.

No Zippy.

[jonnyGURU]

I know OKWolf said he was recapping an OCZ, same one that will be used in your "special review" or different?

That's the one. But it's not an OCZ. It's an Epsilon. But having both apart, one could easily say they are both the same thing minus a few minor changes.

The Zalman HP-600 is another Epsilon based unit, but the components in it are quite different.

[dinos22]

hey johnny you ever did any reviews on ePower PSUs.....i know they are low end and all but would be interesting seeing just how good or :banana::banana::banana::banana: they are from your perspective heh

i'm just testing a 680i rig with one of these

http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc03701rx2.jpg

[Cooper]

hey johnny you ever did any reviews on ePower PSUs.....i know they are low end and all but would be interesting seeing just how good or :banana::banana::banana::banana: they are from your perspective heh

i'm just testing a 680i rig with one of these

http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc03701rx2.jpg

looks just like OCZ Powerstream

[jonnyGURU]

looks just like OCZ Powerstream

Close.

Same OEM at least (Topower.)

http://www.jonnyguru.com/PSU/EP-550P5T1/EP-550P5T1.html

I did the fanless too... but can't find the review. :D

[MaxxxRacer]

Close.

Same OEM at least (Topower.)

http://www.jonnyguru.com/PSU/EP-550P5T1/EP-550P5T1.html

I did the fanless too... but can't find the review. :D

Wow. what a garbage psu. topower sure did alot better on the powerstream.

[nn_step]

well it is kind of hard to justify the premium price of Premium parts, unless you have premium brand name

[jonnyGURU]

Wow. what a garbage psu. topower sure did alot better on the powerstream.

The PowerStream is the only Topower I'd even consider. And even then it would have to be a PowerStream 520ADJSLI. NOT the 520ADJ (green LED version) and not the 600W.

[Poodle]

I like the PSU, but I kind of regret that I didn't wait for the Corsair which seems to be a little better... :(

I haven't tested with a proper multimeter but in software there's high ripple on the 12V.

[dinos22]

Close.

Same OEM at least (Topower.)

http://www.jonnyguru.com/PSU/EP-550P5T1/EP-550P5T1.html

I did the fanless too... but can't find the review. :D
LOL looks like i'll be selling this one quick heheheh :D j/k.....i'll be stressing the :banana::banana::banana::banana: out of mine :D
my one has a much higher 5V rating.........i wonder if that helps the 12v rails :D

[jonnyGURU]

I haven't tested with a proper multimeter but in software there's high ripple on the 12V.

You can't measure ripple with a multimeter or software. Only an oscope. You're thinking of voltage regulation, I'm sure.

[Nosfer@tu]

jonnyGURU, You use an USB osiliscope yes?

because on some PSU´s yu have a very high rippel reading.

Migth that be because of interferance on teh USB connections?

[xenolith]

I think that someday someone should test overclockability of a cpu with a psu that has bad ripple and one that has good ripple and see what the difference is.

I'm betting it will be very small indeed ( just a hunch ). I'd think Mr J. Guru would be the man for the job though !

Regards

Andy

I too would like to see the results of such a test. You would think that the quality and number of phases of power regulation would better determine stability of CPU and memory voltage supply. But on the other hand, if a mb's regulators are constantly being subjected to undue stress by high ripple... it makes sense that may have an effect.

[Nosfer@tu]

PC Power and Cooling have NEVER been made by Zippy.

The Silencers are made by Seasonic. The Turbo-Cools are made by Win-Tact.

Before the Turbo-Cools came out, the Silencer used to be made by FSP/SPI.

No Zippy.

The Silencers ? WANT CHEAP seasonic :)

BTW johhny what is your prefered psu around 700-900 watt :)

[Nosfer@tu]

I too would like to see the results of such a test. You would think that the quality and number of phases of power regulation would better determine stability of CPU and memory voltage supply. But on the other hand, if a mb's regulators are constantly being subjected to undue stress by high ripple... it makes sense that may have an effect.

Dinos22 could do that test :D

He has THA SHIAT of a PSU rigth now :p

[dinos22]

Dinos22 could do that test :D

He has THA SHIAT of a PSU rigth now :p
ALL my PSUs have been below recommended spec when i overclock (not that it's a good idea lol).................but i don't do high end 3D

once and IF nvidia asks me to test GFX cards :D i will buy dedicated VGA PSUs which JohnnyGuru said he tested and approves of which is really good to know

btw Johnny you never replied to my question about TT VGA PSUs............have you got any tests that you can link for them

:toast:

[jonnyGURU]

jonnyGURU, You use an USB osiliscope yes?

because on some PSU´s yu have a very high rippel reading.

Migth that be because of interferance on teh USB connections?

No. The data is fed to the Oscope and then the Oscope feeds the data to the PC via USB.

It's not like the actual waveform is going down the USB cable. ;)

I show higher ripple than other reviewers because I actually have the Oscope output at the load with the proper capacitance. The load tester is actually made to output ripple and noise data to the Oscope. I don't use probes on a PWM.

[jonnyGURU]

btw Johnny you never replied to my question about TT VGA PSUs............have you got any tests that you can link for them

:toast:

I'll get around to it eventually.

[dinos22]

I'll get around to it eventually.
thanks mate

that would make Enermax 535W + 2x250W TT VGA PSUs a good candidate for even G80+ in DX10 benches i reckon :toast:

[breakfromyou]

i heard somebody say neopower and replace in the same post. who was it, why, and what should i replace my neopower with. i hate this thing.

jonnyguru, i cant find any reviews for the NeoPower 480w. I'm using one, and this thing gets ridiculously hot.

if the OCZ GameXstream psu's have so much ripple, why does everybody buy them??

[syne_24]

if the OCZ GameXstream psu's have so much ripple, why does everybody buy them??

Probably because it's cheap for a lot of power and also give decent results, except the ripples.




It's not like the actual waveform is going down the USB cable. ;)


lol..;)

[NapalmV5]

do they have 1KW psu?

when i installed kent on my FSP700 the system didnt boot, SS Zeus 850 came to the rescue but even this guy i dont know if its gonna be able to take my kent @ 4GHz + 3x Areca controllers + 12x hdds.. @ 3.6ghz the v12 rail is already @ 11.88 and this is just 2x areca + 8 hdds