Melymel2789`s AquaRose - worklog [Archive]

LukeXE

10-04-2006, 12:52 PM

Hey

Few days ago I started building SS for XS member, Melymel2789 :) We talked about only SS, but yesterday I decided, to rebuild it and try one more time autocascading unit in unseen case :) This time I will use larger compressor (Aspera 5/8HP 17ccm) and more professional parts of the system, like better phase separator, HX and few nice things.

So, few photos, I did this work few minutes ago

first, I started making phase separator, 20cm of 35mm tube.

http://www.teampuss.com/lukexe/AquaRose/PICT9571.jpg
http://www.teampuss.com/lukexe/AquaRose/PICT9572.jpg
http://www.teampuss.com/lukexe/AquaRose/PICT9573.jpg
http://www.teampuss.com/lukexe/AquaRose/PICT9574.jpg
http://www.teampuss.com/lukexe/AquaRose/PICT9575.jpg

and cleaned

http://www.teampuss.com/lukexe/AquaRose/PICT9584.jpg
http://www.teampuss.com/lukexe/AquaRose/PICT9596.jpg

Next, time to build the main HX !

http://www.teampuss.com/lukexe/AquaRose/PICT9578.jpg
http://www.teampuss.com/lukexe/AquaRose/PICT9579.jpg
http://www.teampuss.com/lukexe/AquaRose/PICT9580.jpg
http://www.teampuss.com/lukexe/AquaRose/PICT9583.jpg

brazed....

http://www.teampuss.com/lukexe/AquaRose/PICT9598.jpg
http://www.teampuss.com/lukexe/AquaRose/PICT9599.jpg

that`s all at this moment, tomorrow I will braze evap, this evap :toast:

http://gorajec.net/lukexe/v7%20evap/PICT9453.jpg

Big thanks to SoddemFX for that nice stuff :toast:

so, stay tunned :)

Brettbeck

10-04-2006, 01:12 PM

Looks great :). Are you going to mount the main HX on the top of the case inside above the compressor?

It will be interesting to see how efficient that smaller HX will work. What gases are you going to use? R290/Co2?

LukeXE

10-04-2006, 01:16 PM

You`re right about mounting HX :)

Gasses will be R290/CO2 (the best for me, with R22 I have worse temperatures, don`t know why, I like R290 :D )

Brettbeck

10-04-2006, 02:11 PM

I think someone should try Ethane (R170) :D. I've only ever seen one person with it before (someone in the UK got some) but I dont remember there ever being any results.

I think it would be a good idea for someone to test how short you can make a fully effective HX with pipe. A lot of people now use a plate HX, but it would be interesting to see if you can make a HX with pipe much less than 5m!

LukeXE

10-04-2006, 09:27 PM

I would try ethane, when I will get it from Unknown_road :D

bazx

10-04-2006, 11:01 PM

i like reading your threads luke

always looking for a new edge

Brettbeck

10-05-2006, 08:25 AM

I would try ethane, when I will get it from Unknown_road :D

When will that be :D?
Would be nice to see if it can be used in an auto-cascade or maybe even a single stage with a good SLHX. Have you ever tried adding a SLHX to a single stage and mixing R290 and CO2?
It would also be interesting to see if you could build a main HX (that would work fine) with around 1m of say 1/4" in 1/2".

sl4ck

10-05-2006, 09:07 AM

Moc

10-05-2006, 09:26 AM

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/5072/pict9598uh9.jpg

I hope its correct... :)

the_new_guy

10-05-2006, 09:36 AM

i like ur evap

LukeXE

10-05-2006, 12:11 PM

that's a nice and clean phase sep. ;)

Can you explain your HX? Can't understand it

EDIT: looked it with more attention, and i think, now i understand it. Why did you pass the 2 right side tubes outside? Because you can't pass it inside in the corner's ?

I pass that tubes outside, because I had problems with putting they in suctionline pipe in corners.

When will that be :D?
Would be nice to see if it can be used in an auto-cascade or maybe even a single stage with a good SLHX. Have you ever tried adding a SLHX to a single stage and mixing R290 and CO2?
It would also be interesting to see if you could build a main HX (that would work fine) with around 1m of say 1/4" in 1/2".

I tried Co2/R290 mixes in singlestage units, idle temps better, much better, load I think that same or little bit worse than pure R290.

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/5072/pict9598uh9.jpg

I hope its correct... :)

3 and 4 wrong :)

3 is propane in, 4 is suctionline going to compressor.

And as I said, I brazed today V7 evap !

http://www.teampuss.com/lukexe/AquaRose/Clipboard.jpg

We don`t wanna oxidation, do we ?

http://www.teampuss.com/lukexe/AquaRose/PICT9609.jpg

http://www.teampuss.com/lukexe/AquaRose/PICT9611.jpg

http://www.teampuss.com/lukexe/AquaRose/PICT9614.jpg

http://www.teampuss.com/lukexe/AquaRose/PICT9616.jpg

:banana::banana::banana::banana:less inside :toast:

http://www.teampuss.com/lukexe/AquaRose/PICT9619.jpg

http://www.teampuss.com/lukexe/AquaRose/PICT9620.jpg

http://www.teampuss.com/lukexe/AquaRose/PICT9621.jpg

http://www.teampuss.com/lukexe/AquaRose/PICT9622.jpg

http://www.teampuss.com/lukexe/AquaRose/PICT9623.jpg

Cheers

Hugo van Dijk

10-05-2006, 12:28 PM

Very nice luke, you are defantly original and full with good ideas. ;)

Love that phasesep.

Is that co2 your using there for purging never thought it would freeze like that. Do you have a picture of that connection you made there from your guage to schrader it looks a but unreliable and complicated though. I just use a nut and put a schrader through and flare the schrader that way i can pull it thight to the guage. (and it can stand highpressures atleast more then we will ever need).

Brettbeck

10-05-2006, 12:32 PM

Looks great Luke :). Are you brazing with propane or MAPP?

I tried Co2/R290 mixes in singlestage units, idle temps better, much better, load I think that same or little bit worse than pure R290.

Is that with a nice SLHX?

Also, when purging, do you feed the capillary tube to the bottom, and then put the copper pipe sleeve over the evap and let the gas push its way up through the steps and out the top?

n00b 0f l337

10-05-2006, 12:50 PM

Also, when purging, do you feed the capillary tube to the bottom, and then put the copper pipe sleeve over the evap and let the gas push its way up through the steps and out the top?
I'm pretty sure thats correct, then purge through the capillary so it doesnt get clogged.

LukeXE

10-05-2006, 12:55 PM

Looks great Luke :). Are you brazing with propane or MAPP?

Is that with a nice SLHX?

Also, when purging, do you feed the capillary tube to the bottom, and then put the copper pipe sleeve over the evap and let the gas push its way up through the steps and out the top?

I`m brazing with MAPP gas with little help propane as you see on photos.

About purging, I`m doing exacly that same like you written

LukeXE

10-05-2006, 01:08 PM

Hugo van Dijk

10-05-2006, 01:30 PM

You mean that connection ?

Yes,

This is how I made such a connection (Its my first time brazing on this pic so it isn,t to good yet), But I already made a new one which is much better.

http://img446.imageshack.us/img446/9748/p8010183sy6.jpg

LukeXE

10-05-2006, 01:34 PM

Hehe, my is that same, but I used 2,3mm captube to connect service valve with gauges instead 6mm pipe :D

n00b 0f l337

10-05-2006, 01:36 PM

Heh I'll have to post my solution, my manifold has a flare output, so I grabbed a short 1' hvac charging hose, attached flare side to the manifold, and made a double ended NPT for the other.

wdrzal

10-05-2006, 01:38 PM

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/5072/pict9598uh9.jpg

I hope its correct... :)

Luke !!!:nono: :slap: did you braze that in a camp fire :rolleyes: you can't use tube that carboned up inside in a refrigeration system. you better have a good supply of filters if it works at all. come-on you know better :fact:

LukeXE

10-05-2006, 01:47 PM

wdrzal, I know, it was stupidity to braze that HX without purging :| I must find solution to clean it inside :p

but evap looks sweet inside, isn`t it ? :D

Hugo van Dijk

10-05-2006, 02:16 PM

Hehe, my is that same, but I used 2,3mm captube to connect service valve with gauges instead 6mm pipe :D

Is that a brass fitting which normaly gets used for clamping a hose? (where your capilair goes in)

If so, how did you braze it without melting the brass.

Btw. could someone confirm this, isn,t it true when you use CO2 for purging it falls apart in Carbon and Oxygen when its being heated or doesn,t it get hot enough to fall apart in the way we use it?

LukeXE

10-05-2006, 02:20 PM

That`s right, I brazed captube to that fitting, which is normally used for clamping the hose.

I just disconnected that fitting, brazed with 40% silver and connected it again to gauges, voila :D

Brettbeck

10-05-2006, 02:25 PM

Luke !!!:nono: :slap: did you braze that in a camp fire :rolleyes: you can't use tube that carboned up inside in a refrigeration system. you better have a good supply of filters if it works at all. come-on you know better :fact:

So HX's need to be purged too? Pipe in pipe and plate?

LukeXE

10-05-2006, 02:30 PM

So HX's need to be purged too? Pipe in pipe and plate?

It should, in that HX I`ve got a lot of oxidation, I will have some :banana::banana::banana::banana: inside unit, I must install more filters, but I will clean that HX

Hugo van Dijk

10-05-2006, 02:31 PM

So HX's need to be purged too? Pipe in pipe and plate?

HX is the same as evap its a huge space which is going oxidize which might clock up the system, if you braze a coppertube to compressor or condensor (for example) the space you heat up is pretty small which means only that place is going to oxidize. Which wouldn,t be a huge problem (thats why a filter is being used anyway).

Correct me if I,m wrong

LukeXE

10-05-2006, 02:32 PM

Agree

wdrzal

10-05-2006, 03:25 PM

The entire system needs to be purged of o2 or oxidation will take place,including hx's. you should not braze 1 joint without purging. I always like to assemble the entire system before I braze where possible, sometimes when you do systems of 250,000 btu's thats not possible,but in a system of 800 btu's it is.

I know of no way to clean that oxidation..........It will clog filters and valves,trash it and start over ......If you would have followed procedure that question would be irrelevant.

Don't you guys get want I keep REPEATING !!!!!!!!! A refrigeration system MUST be "Clean room CLEAN INSIDE"

IT must look just like the new Dehydrated tubing you should be using, that's right, You should be using DEHYDRATED tubing, not plumbing tubing.......... Dehydrated tubing is not only free of moisture but goes thru several cleaning steps to remove the lubricants used in manufacturing the tube

runmc

10-05-2006, 03:28 PM

Thank you Walt - Let's repeat that - :stick:

Don't you guys get want I keep REPEATING !!!!!!!!! A refrigeration system MUST be "Clean room CLEAN INSIDE"

IT must look just like the new Dehydrated tubing you should be using, that's right, You should be using DEHYDRATED tubing, not plumbing tubing.......... Dehydrated tubing is not only free of moisture but goes thru several cleaning steps to remove the lubricants used in manufacturing the tube

n00b 0f l337

10-05-2006, 03:31 PM

I personally prefer strainers before cap lines and filters on suction (so crud cant get back into the compressor)

wdrzal

10-05-2006, 03:36 PM

HX is the same as evap its a huge space which is going oxidize which might clock up the system, if you braze a coppertube to compressor or condensor (for example) the space you heat up is pretty small which means only that place is going to oxidize. Which wouldn,t be a huge problem (thats why a filter is being used anyway).

Correct me if I,m wrong

Your Wrong, :stick: you should build the system as if no filter/dryer was used.

wdrzal

10-05-2006, 03:47 PM

I personally prefer strainers before cap lines and filters on suction (so crud cant get back into the compressor)

Why, so the moisture can freeze in the cap tube as the pressure begins to drop , you get a liquid/vapor mix in the last 1/3 of the cap tube. if moisture is present in that last 1/3 you get a liquid/vapor/ice clog.

why do you guys keep spouting BS that not a accepted practice.

The problem with forums is many thing are much more complex than they appear, and no one is going to type pages to try to explain the reason why. If they did ,most wouldn't take the time to read it.

I keep telling you guys if you want to halfway understand how refrigeration works buy a good book,it will be the BEST TOOl in the tool box. The internet only offer bits and pieces of information,with half of it or more being wrong or just someones BS.

Buy a GOOD book !!!!!!

n00b 0f l337

10-05-2006, 03:51 PM

Ah but I have had no such problems wd after performing accceptable triple evac's with inert gas. Though I think maybe filter and strainer on high side may happen in my next project.

This is not the point though, and though you be the expert, that doesnt give you the right to yell down at others ( or at least thats how I read the tone of your posts ).

The point is that Luke needs to make a new HX and purge when he does so.

wdrzal

10-05-2006, 04:54 PM

Noob the reason you had no trouble is the what I stated earlier, you should be able to build a system with no filter/dryer,if the system is clean & dry it will work .They are just add some safety,. they do not always catch the moisture if present........

AS everyone here should know, I have no ill will to wards anyone I only am here to help & also learn.

First I try to keep everyone working safe,and try to stop someone before a accident occurs.

Second noob if you or anyones else makes a statement that is not the norm, you need to give a detailed reason WHY you made that statement or it is just supposition or BS.

The problem is over the years the forum got full of statements that are clearly wrong ,but submitted as fact.
whether they are intentional or just a mistake, I think everyone will agree that they take away from the integrity of the forum.

So why do they make only strainers,with no material to remove moisture? The simple answer as to most is economics, the window a/c manufacturer might feel that the dollar or so they save helps the bottom line. When in a tightly controlled factory setting ,being sure there is no chance of moisture, one is not needed.

Also be aware that all moisture(if any is present) may not be asorbed in a single pass. As we have seen here on the forum, people reported their rig not working, only to unplug it ,let it thaw ,then cycle again and find it working correctly. This may have to be done severial times depending on how much moisture you have missed evacuating.

Filter/dryers do have a capacity,they can only asorb a certain amount of moisture and too much crud will also block them or restrict the flow to give high head pressures.

Noob ,sorry if I offended you, that was not my intention, But sometimes it seems like it takes a stern tone too get everyones attention.If left uncorrected nobodys learns.my appoligies again.

n00b 0f l337

10-05-2006, 05:12 PM

No problem Walt, but I (as you've said) build to only have my filter/drier be a precaution.

wdrzal

10-05-2006, 05:15 PM

Thank you Walt - Let's repeat that - :stick:

I think the problem is when I say "clean room" clean,................They think I'm their mother yelling at them to clean their bed room .:rolleyes: and it goes over their head. :D

Guys think of the white suites at Intel or NASA , thats a clean room, not throwing all your dirty clothes under the bed and hiding your HVAC stuff in the closet.:D :D :D

runmc

10-05-2006, 05:46 PM

Walt - - - I for one am very glad your around.:toast:

If it wasn't for guys like you who really do care about safety and sharing their priceless knowledge with others, we would all be in a world of BS. The only part of your post that I took as yelling was -" Buy a GOOD book !!!!!!"

Now let's get back on the topic of Lukes HX. I've got some purging to do.:woot:

[486]

10-05-2006, 06:17 PM

he could use high pressure air to clean it out, and use high capacity filter dryers, that's how i did it when i forgot to purge, or didn't have a purging system thought out. Hope it does well!

BigBen2k

10-05-2006, 09:49 PM

I think the problem is when I say "clean room" clean,................They think I'm their mother yelling at them to clean their bed room .:rolleyes: and it goes over their head. :D

Guys think of the white suites at Intel or NASA , thats a clean room, not throwing all your dirty clothes under the bed and hiding your HVAC stuff in the closet.:D :D :D
I think I know what you mean, just because I was reading up on High Vacuum environments. I got a question for you though:

- Do you think it would be possible to make a new piece of house plumbing type copper, ready for an HVAC application? (assuming of course that it's of the proper gauge).

I'm thinking that baking the copper part in an oven, while running an inert gas through it, then capping it before it cools down, would effectively de-humidify the piece. (don't ask me how you'd cap a hot part, I haven't figured out that part yet! :D )

LukeXE

10-05-2006, 11:38 PM

OK, I will try make a new HX with purging, but copper is 100% more expensive than few weeks ago. Doing new HX will ruine my budget for that unit, but I made a stupid mistake and I must pay for it.

thanks wdrzal for advices, your knownledge is very big and you`re helping me/us a lot ! :toast:....even as you yelling :D

NO1B4ME

10-06-2006, 01:01 AM

That is Preety cool. How much does something like this cost?

wdrzal

10-06-2006, 01:02 AM

I think I know what you mean, just because I was reading up on High Vacuum environments. I got a question for you though:

- Do you think it would be possible to make a new piece of house plumbing type copper, ready for an HVAC application? (assuming of course that it's of the proper gage).

I'm thinking that baking the copper part in an oven, while running an inert gas through it, then capping it before it cools down, would effectively de-humidify the piece. (don't ask me how you'd cap a hot part, I haven't figured out that part yet! :D )

a oven for roasting your favorite food, not for hvac.

A good vacuum pump will dehydrate it once assembled.

Its the oils used in manufacturing that that may still be present and it is shipped not filled with a inert gas and capped and no telling what got inside during shipping or storage. and depending how old it is it may have quite a bit oxidation already. don't think of oxidation as only the black flacking stuff after brazing without a purge gas. In lesser degrees its any thing ,except "bright shinny copper" . (just like you cleaned it) I won't even use sandpaper to clean refrigeration tube of fittings ,the graduals fall off and can get in the system. I either use the appropriate wire brushes or I would rather use steel wool, at least if a thread of it comes loose you can see it.it does a nice job too.

PS: don't use you Mons SOS or Brillo steel wool pads from under the the sink.

Use steel wool with no soap. :fact:

LukeXE

10-06-2006, 03:13 AM

Sand paper ;)

http://www.teampuss.com/lukexe/AquaRose/PICT9629.jpg
http://www.teampuss.com/lukexe/AquaRose/PICT9630.jpg

LukeXE

10-06-2006, 05:58 AM

Ok, I`m working on that unit, what do you guys think about using cpev for I stage ? (R290 stage) I`ve got few, but I`m not sure about using it

Hugo van Dijk

10-06-2006, 08:24 AM

Your Wrong, :stick: you should build the system as if no filter/dryer was used.

Your absolutly right Walt,

But that is pretty much the way everyone one does it here :( , only a few people really take their time to purge. Purging takes some extra time which most people just don,t wanna spend I sometimes even gotta point myself to this when I,m just to excited to get things done and forget to purge a connection:( . Also purging equipment might not be cheap for some people although it just the basic equipment really so I think everyone should have it.

But then again we ain,t professionals and its been proven that the way its been done by most people just works (only purging the evap). But then again if I gotta do something I rather do it the right way :)

Btw could you tell some more about this: isn,t it true when you use CO2 for purging it falls apart in Carbon and Oxygen when its being heated or doesn,t it get hot enough to fall apart in the way we use it?

Its a active gas so what has it for effect on the way we purge?

I use Nitrogen for purging but I would rather use CO2, since I need it as refrigant anyway this would save me some rent on the bottle of nitrogen.

Thanks.

n00b 0f l337

10-06-2006, 10:04 AM

I use Nitrogen for purging but I would rather use CO2, since I need it as refrigant anyway this would save me some rent on the bottle of nitrogen.
Same thing I do and I know a few others who have used co2 as well, as far as I can tell it's suitable though nitrogen is cheaper.

LukeXE

10-06-2006, 10:08 AM

so...I finished it !

But don`t look at the case, it will be painted. A little bit mess inside unit and my cellar, I must clean there.

http://www.teampuss.com/lukexe/AquaRose/PICT9632.jpg
http://www.teampuss.com/lukexe/AquaRose/PICT9634.jpg
http://www.teampuss.com/lukexe/AquaRose/PICT9635.jpg
http://www.teampuss.com/lukexe/AquaRose/PICT9640.jpg
http://www.teampuss.com/lukexe/AquaRose/PICT9641.jpg
http://www.teampuss.com/lukexe/AquaRose/PICT9643.jpg
http://www.teampuss.com/lukexe/AquaRose/PICT9645.jpg

Ufff, I`m tired a little bit.

I used old Hx, I cleaned it a little bit, sorry, but don`t have cash for new one...

Hugo van Dijk

10-06-2006, 10:09 AM

Awesome luke it turned out very nice.

To bad of the HX, but i don,t think it will cause any problems.

I can,t wait to see what this baby can do :D

Same thing I do and I know a few others who have used co2 as well, as far as I can tell it's suitable though nitrogen is cheaper.

2000liters (10liter bottle @ 200bar) of nitrogen is 20euro here while co2 is 22euro ;)

wdrzal

10-06-2006, 10:32 AM

Nitrogen is the industry standard,..........period...... keep using it .

I am, as I always have been very concerned about guys mixing gases and building cascades without the proper equipment or knowledge.Even if mixing in very high pressure gases like r23 or ethylene ,dangerous circumstances can occur and a relief valve should be used,even on single stages when building proto type models.

And too guys selling units they should be built using approved methods and too safe standards.

I know this is a hobby but every hobby has a dollar cost. If you are a hunter , you need a license ,in USA training to get first license,gun,scope, proper clothing ect. this all adds up to a significant investment,even though its ONLY a hobby.

I take the attitude if you don't want to expend the $ to work in this hobby safely,maybe either you should wait till you can afford to or find another hobby.

I will in no way condone un-safe practices no matter what the reason, and "it is only hobby is not acceptable in my book.

While refrigeration is used widely all over the world safely,people here are pushing componates past their intended parameters. This is all the more reason to follow accepted assembly practeces and not to "getto" anything.

High Pressure Can and has killed many people,keep that in mind.

Sorry to hijack,but from time to time I feel the need to repeat these warnings.

DEVIL K-ce

10-06-2006, 10:38 AM

Luke :toast:

Very nice work there :)

Congrats my friend.

Btw : any temp's with dummy load ?

LukeXE

10-06-2006, 10:44 AM

DEVIL K-ce, not yet, pressure testing it :)

wdrzal @ you`re right, that`s my last unit.

sl4ck

10-06-2006, 11:20 AM

last one?

no more builds? :(

Jort

10-06-2006, 11:23 AM

last unit without purging i guess/hope

wdrzal

10-06-2006, 12:29 PM

Luke ,I hope thats not your last build, you clearly have been trying to exell in this Field, but maybe just a little too fast. There is much information that is "known"in the Field. thats always a good place to start.

As most of my statements this is to everyone, there is a learning curve that takes time. There are so many aspects of refrigeration(which includes thermodynamics and using dangerous gases & electricity)plus the normal ability to use tools proficiently. that are not even or ever have been mentioned in forums.

The INTERNET has given everyone the ability to seek out and learn skills that many would not even considered without it(ya i''m jealous there was no INTERNET when I was young) But with that ability, everyone has to access their own personal ability's honestly and progress with caution. For as unbelievably large the net has become, there is one short falling. It only contains only foot notes of the total knowledge one needs in any Field to become competent.No one edits the information for accuracy or safety either. So with that said ,everyone must take everything read with a grain of salt.

While this is a hobby ,I bet thousands of units have been built and sold on this site alone, How many builders include MSDS (material safety data sheets) ? just for one.or have them available.

Once you decide to sell you product for profit, most laws don't consider you a hobbyist anymore. You obligated under state and Federal guidelines to build a safe item. That means following all codes for electrical, refrigeration,pressure vessel's,ect. I could go on and on.If you build and sell a unit that causes damage to another party you can be sued civil or even criminally if its is determined that negligence is involved.So take this serious guys.

I don't want to discourage anyone from building units, just discourage anyone from building them in a unsafe manner.

There are more builders than ever here at XS, manufacturing some of the nicest products we have ever seen.Take Pride in your product and be sure it's manufactured to the highest standards of safety.

Finally we should All take pride in the knowledge shared and Friends made here at XS, let continue to meet the most Extreme standards and move forward and advance always working in safe manner. Walt

SexyMF

10-06-2006, 01:11 PM

I used electrolysis to remove oxidation. It works really well. Then simply flush the tubing to remove the gunk and neutralise the acid.

I like your builds. Rather see people making an effort with making what they can with what they have, as opposed to lots of people who purchase absolutely new everything and just build things like Lego.

And yes, the very high prices of copper are stopping me making my next build :(

LukeXE

10-06-2006, 01:49 PM

pythagoras

10-06-2006, 03:14 PM

Have a bad day today...

I hope that won`t be my last unit, tomorrow I will work on that one to make it the best as it can be, I will install Danfoss cut off switch on high side.

In next units I will purge everything, I like that autocascade, my mistake with not purging that HX, I`ve got good lesson.

BTW, unit is leakfree

Hi Luke,

Please dont stop building, I like your enthusiasm and build threads. Walt is just trying to improve peoples builds by advising on industry wide procedures.

You are actually a good team here, because each of your builds progress, because you do listen;)

And one more OT for me. Walt, if you braze up the whole system, I presume you need to shut off the purge gas for the last joint? May be obvious, but some might miss that and get a micro-leak in the last joint, where the Nitrogen tries to escape. Which of course can happen if the nitrogen pressure is too high on any braze job.

Regards

John.

n00b 0f l337

10-06-2006, 04:15 PM

And one more OT for me. Walt, if you braze up the whole system, I presume you need to shut off the purge gas for the last joint? May be obvious, but some might miss that and get a micro-leak in the last joint, where the Nitrogen tries to escape. Which of course can happen if the nitrogen pressure is too high on any braze job.
Versus just removing the valve core from the low or high side?

wdrzal

10-06-2006, 07:24 PM

Generally when purging you continuously flow gas in one access port while leaving the other one open(remove valve core ) so pressure does not build. Or you will be guaranteed a pinhole leak as the gas pushes out thru the filler.

If you only have 1 access port,there are ways too also purge depending on location. You can flush all o2 out so only nitrogen is in system then remove hose or open valve to atmosphere.

but in any case when heating any joint you must have at least 1 port open to the atmosphere so pressure does not build.

Even if you fill the system with nitrogen and the pressure is 0 psig ,heating the joint will also heat the gas inside causing a pressure rise probably resulting in a pinhole leak.........or even pushing the joint completely apart, depending on joint tolerance and pressure build.

LukeXE

10-08-2006, 09:46 AM

Ok, little update without photos, because I had a little fight with my girlfriend and I don`t want to borrow from she digicam ;]

So, unit is alive :D It`s working, not loud (in my opinion) and the important thing, temps are good but can be better,

First, it was mistake to install cpev on I stage. I don`t know why, maybe I don`t know how to properly regulate cpev or something, but HX temps are...~ 0*C :| I expected ~ -20*c at least...IN next few days I will install my favourite captube and then temps MUST be better.

Evap temps, -72*C@0,2bar suction (2,9PSI) idle of course, I don`t wanna play with load, when HX temperature sucks, so I will play with it maybe on wednesday.

Discharge pressure ~ 17bar (260PSI).

LukeXE

10-12-2006, 12:07 PM

Some photos

http://www.teampuss.com/lukexe/AquaRose/PICT0028.jpg
http://www.teampuss.com/lukexe/AquaRose/PICT0030.jpg
http://www.teampuss.com/lukexe/AquaRose/PICT0031.jpg
http://www.teampuss.com/lukexe/AquaRose/PICT0032.jpg
http://www.teampuss.com/lukexe/AquaRose/PICT0036.jpg
http://www.teampuss.com/lukexe/AquaRose/PICT0037.jpg
http://www.teampuss.com/lukexe/AquaRose/PICT0044.jpg
http://www.teampuss.com/lukexe/AquaRose/PICT0057.jpg

Gray Mole

10-12-2006, 12:23 PM

Nice so far :)

I've always had a tough time getting the HX temps to where I like to see them on Auto's but experience, time, and a lot of tweaking is what they demand.

I do hope you continue with phase, though I've been getting to the point myself of wanting to stop sometimes.

I myself am taking a break after the next 4 or 5 waiting are done (after my hand heals) and just go back to research and development again for a while. I miss the cascades and doing phase on my terms instead of the constant builds and timeframes for others.

Anyway, looking forward to seeing your Auto's coming together, there's not many who do, or are capable of doing, Auto's as well as you do :toast:

Gray

LukeXE

10-12-2006, 12:34 PM

Thank you very much Gray :toast:

Really thanks to all you guys for good words !

Marvin_The_Martian

10-12-2006, 01:22 PM

Looking good luke, MelyMel will be glad with her unit when she's done I'm sure :toast:

Also don't stop building, need to finish mine first :stick: Also, go to school, don't skip and when you get back you will get a nice present from me :P

But only if you don't skip.... :toast:

sl4ck

10-12-2006, 04:47 PM

To me... you're the Auto-C's Man :toast:

kayl

10-12-2006, 07:55 PM

nice looking auto-c there luke, i know ya wont stop building, you have an itch you just cant help but scratch like the rest of us :toast:
will you be installing a small expansion tank, the static pressures seems a little high (compared to a normal single, but of course this is a small auto-C), ya might have some start issues after running for a few hours, then turn system off and trying to start cooler again, somthing might wanna check.

LukeXE

10-13-2006, 12:19 AM

Yeah, I will install small expansion tank, but I`m not sure that I should.

On that photo is discharge pressure :) today I checked static pressure and it`s pretty low, only 6 bar (85PSI).

fatty

10-13-2006, 12:57 AM

Great unit you have there LukeXE don't give up I am going to neeed you when I have another go at auto's :toast:

LukeXE

10-13-2006, 02:26 AM

some bad news

that unit don`t hold load ! :| with co2 and R290...

Vacuuming it now and try with R507/R290 or pure R507, if results will be worse than normal SS, I`ll finish that project and make normal SS...

I`m little disapointed, so making auto-c similar to prommy size is imposibble ? I would try my design with rotary compressor, I think just normal compressors aren`t too good for auto-c :| Second small autocascade, better everything, design etc and results that same. now I have -13*C@155W load...amazing...

Stay tuned, I will fight with it.

Duniek

10-13-2006, 03:17 AM