Leak tester or regulator?

[Marvin]

Hi, i was thinking on a unit to pressure test my compenents. Then i hooked a high pressure manometer.
what do you think ?
http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/9564/p1010102fh1.th.jpg (http://img105.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1010102fh1.jpg)

[GuGaCoSa]

Hello marvin,sorry,i tried,but i didnt understood what do you want with this,sorry :P

[jinu117]

Big no no if you are talking about not having any regulation from Nitrogen tank. We are dealing with over 2000psi quite often. Is playing with 2000psi+ torpedo gas better than dealing with $60-$100? You be the judge.

[Marvin]

nope, i would like to make a leak tester ,instead of using the manifold....:)

[GuGaCoSa]

Will u use refrigerant to test?if so,no problems...

[wdrzal]

This is to everyone

We do not Practice "cowboy refrigeration" on this site. Any one Practicing or Promoting Very dangerious Practices I,m going to talk mods and admin first about issuing a warning ,and if not followed bans will start.Please flollow accepted and safe practices at all times.

As all you know this problem pops up from time to time in different ways, I hope you guys don't push this Again till the mods and adim have to act.

Walt Safety First

[aussie_guy00000]

I read a few articles in the australian climate control news about a couple of tradesman that had lost limbs or an eye due to trying this sort of thing. One lost his eye because the side of a compressor blew out under the high pressures that are discharged from an unregulated N2 bottle. One can not understate the dangers involved in using an unregulated N2 bottle, it's like playing with a lit dynamite stick in a mine field, not a case of if, but when something bad will happen.

[jinu117]

Walt Safety First

Ahahha... yes, that is going to be your title from now on Walt Right? :)

As for comment about warning, I hope what we have mentioned got enough to your brain to register how dangerous it could be. And yes, I do keep eye on this kind of stuff where people could kill themselves easily. It's for your good, listen to us please.

[trance565]

reminds me of when i used a straight co2 bottle to do a small amount of pressure testing, but you can somewhat control the output from the bottle without a regulator, by just screwing it in some, so the valve only opens a bit, but yea, still stupid lol.

[BigBen2k]

Here you go:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=003&item=130025326223
$26 + $10 shipping.
(No, I don't know this vendor)

There are plenty of other regulators on eBay, but to err on the safe side, I'd make sure that:
a) It can handle the high pressures of a tank (i.e. 2'000 psi +)

b) it's not so used that its questionable as to wether or not it'll work ok (antiques are BAD!).

[wdrzal]

Here you go:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=003&item=130025326223
$26 + $10 shipping.
(No, I don't know this vendor)

There are plenty of other regulators on eBay, but to err on the safe side, I'd make sure that:
a) It can handle the high pressures of a tank (i.e. 2'000 psi +)

b) it's not so used that its questionable as to wether or not it'll work ok (antiques are BAD!).


Absoulty NOT, thats a CO2 reg for beer, the secondary side won't got high enough for hvac use. probably not over 15 or 30 psi.

I see it gos to 60 psi still no where close to high enough

[BigBen2k]

My bad; I'm still thinking along the lines of a shielding gas, for brazing. Otherwise this unit does have: "3000 psig Max Primary Inlet.".

[Marvin]

This is to everyone

We do not Practice "cowboy refrigeration" on this site. Any one Practicing or Promoting Very dangerious Practices I,m going to talk mods and admin first about issuing a warning ,and if not followed bans will start.Please flollow accepted and safe practices at all times.

As all you know this problem pops up from time to time in different ways, I hope you guys don't push this Again till the mods and adim have to act.

Walt Safety First
I think you didnt unsterstand what i want to say....
I never advocated unsafe methods. I am not idiot to use this with high pressure gases(sure they need a high pressure regulator), but to use with low pressure gases, like propane...
So you should blame Epsilon with his thread about Shreader to Propane Bottle Guide :
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=46213

[wdrzal]

propane is around 120 to 140 psi at ambiant and needs no regulator.

[jinu117]

Quoted directly from Overclock.net.
Hi, i was thinking on a unit to pressure test my compenents. Then i hooked a high pressure manometer.
I know it is very dangerous ( not recommend it), but is a lot cheaper than a normal N2 regulator :
what do you think ?
A lot cheaper than normal N2 regulator.... I am sorry but editing post later and than saying I didn't say it just isn't my favorite subject to talk about. Don't yell at walt for this Sodamm :) Walt and I read it before it got edited and posted back.
Now, at least I think our friend here is understanding how serious danger it could be :) And no harm done yet so all is good :)

Honestly though, I don't recommend leak testing with propane either, as well as refrigerant (for obvious reason on this one... if you are rich enough to pay fine if ever caught... :P)

Now, also, leak testing at 100psi warrants you only partial leak testing. Some marginal joints can start cracking at a little higher pressure. And considering how high highside can get, you do really need to test system around at least 150psi+ (possible static pressure after unit has been running full load for quite some time... it will go down as compressor cools down, etc).

Just some food for thought ;)

[wdrzal]

Yes soddom I do release ALL you mentioned, BUT some things are just NOT accetable, like NOT using a regulator on a high pressure gas bottle.Even though this is a"hobby site," many people are selling their manufactured products and if not a basic set of tools and understanding is required. I don't know or care what bowman did or anyone else, I try to let proper and safe procedures be known so everyone has a goal to strive for.

There is NOTHING more important than personel safety.

Let me finish by saying, while some only build a single personel unit or maybe non at all ,a lot of guys have progressed to turning out some of the nicest units ever built.

Just a few years ago only a few people made evaps for sale, just look how many are doing this now.

Finnaly I do release we have some young members with limted funds, but they don't get a bye of safety because of that. many move up to phase from water cooling and don't deal with high pressures and to some psi is just a number and don't relize the dangers of a high pressure vessels.

Even though I may give stern warnings from time to time ,I have no ill will towards anyone .

My main Goal here is to get people to work safe ,then to strive to be the best that they can be. As you know I always recommend everyone to buy a good refrigeration book,as forums only give bits and peices and a lot of important info never even gets talked about.

Every hobby has a given $ expense associated with it, if you can't at least buy the proper tools for basic safety, I suggest you wait until you can before jumping head first into the unknown.

I am very proud how many people here progressed from a "noob" knowing nothing about refrigeation to producing some of the best units we ever seen.

But no matter what level some is in their learing curve, They MUST work safely at all time not only for the benifit of their safety and that of their familys, but for the whole site, One major accident my bring a end to forums like this . The liabilty of the more infored members is to not allow Promoting practices not recommended by the RSES .(refrigeration service engineers society) It would just be ilresponsable not to do so.Stoping dangerious practices and promoting accepted ones ,is the only way for this Site as a whole to move on and above the norm.

Safety first : Walt.

[wdrzal]

Nitrogen composes 78% of the atmosphere, there is no cheaper gas. you can buy a 40 cu foot bottle on ebay for 80.00 and add a 30 to 40 reg. I can get whole purging kits for less than 100.00 ,not counting bottle but that has reg, hose and all types of adapters for unblocking condensate drains to purging and pressure testing and even a blow gun.but that would approach 200.00. w bottle.

a bottle and reg is good for starters.
Like I said every hobby has a dollar cost.if your in to paint ball which I.m not and know very little about. I do know you can buy a beginner gun for rather cheap, but the extreme models can cost 10 to 20 time more.

but in any case certin personal safety equipmet is REQURIED before your allow on a paintball battle feild.

I still fell strongly about some who never worked with any type of this equiptment and has no or very little understanding of gases and how they relate to pressure and flammabiltiy using flamable gases for there first build.....some people are very young working with little or no supervision.

propane is heavier than air and can remain in a system even if its left open .it has a explosive range in air of around 2.2 to 10.1 % iirc. having a compressor can full of propane and all it take is 2,2% air to mix and when the torch is lit to braze the final joint you have a potential bomb.

Guys invest 3000.00 or more on a rig running on air or water.

If they want want to step up to use refrigerants and high pressure gases, they must be willing to outlay at least enough money to buy the minimium tools needed to work safely and they are also needed to complete a sucsusfull build.

Personal safety ; eye protection and gloves
a safe well venlated work place

a manifold set to read pressures
a vacuum pump to properly dehydrate
a nitrogen tank and reg for purging during brazing and leak testing.

then you basic hand tools torch & tubing cutter,a flare tool may not even be required if you braze all connections plus your consumables and of course a refrigerant.

I got go so I propably missed somethings.

[trance565]

you can go to places like johnson supply and pay 70 bucks, to rent a bottle with nitrogen in it, 60 for the bottle, 10 for the gas, and then when you return the bottle, you get teh 60 back, so 10 bucks + regulator, unless they haveone you can rent also.

one thing i would REALLY like to have, is a paintball co2 bottle downsizer, so as to fit it onto a manifold, so far, nobody has them, which is annoying, grangers has a regulator, but its 150, and not made for paintball co2.

if you can find a downsizer, paintball co2 would be the absolute cheapest, 20 bucks for a 20oz bottle, 30 in some places, 5 bucks for a downsizer, if you can find one, and then use your manifold that you better already have.

that woudl be even cheaper than nitrogen for pressure testing, as a refill costs 3.99 usd at most sports stores.

the manifold i have is rated for up to 2500psi on the hoses, so im guessing the main peice would be on par withthe hoses. and co2 is only at 1200psi

[trance565]

then how much psi does that mean it will be as a gas?

cuz from my understanding, if it's 750psi as a liquid, it would be less psi as gas???

[wdrzal]

Inside the bottle if there is liquid and gas present they will be at the same pressure, and will go up or down as ambiant temperture changes. as long as there is liquid present ,the presure will follow a P/T chart for that gas.

There is a minimium amount of liquid that MUST tbe present for a P/T chart to be accrate,but that number is small,under 1% and usually under 1/10% of contaniner volume or less. it changes with the gas and pressure its is at.

[Carlz0r]

then how much psi does that mean it will be as a gas?

cuz from my understanding, if it's 750psi as a liquid, it would be less psi as gas???
Higher psi as a gas, actually. The higher the temperature of something, the further apart the molecules become, therefore exerting more force on the walls of whatever container it is in.

[trance565]

Inside the bottle if there is liquid and gas present they will be at the same pressure, and will go up or down as ambiant temperture changes. as long as there is liquid present ,the presure will follow a P/T chart for that gas.

There is a minimium amount of liquid that MUST tbe present for a P/T chart to be accrate,but that number is small,under 1% and usually under 1/10% of contaniner volume or less. it changes with the gas and pressure its is at.


wow, im not even going to start with how confusing coolpack is.