High fsb help on Abit KR7A please

[RuKK]

Yeah, I know its dated. Still, I have seen numerous people running at 190 or 200mhz fsb on a KR7A. Well, I just got some new ram yesterday, so I figured I would be looking at atleast 180.. Dident exactly happen that way.

Better start at the beginning and list my current system specs.

1700+ JIUHB 0310 DUT3C
Abit KR7A-Raid (the one with the two dark caps and yellow raid)
512mb Infinion PC2700
ELSA GeForce3 "classic"
SoundBlaster Live!
noname NIC
20gb Quantum Fireball 7200rpm hdd
12gb Quantum Fireball 5400rpm hdd
L&C generic style 300W PSU

Cooled by a Volcano 6cu+ with AS3 correctly applied and seated well on the CPU, 5 80mm fans in my case (Antec SX1200). My NB fan died yesterday while I was installing my ram, so I hung a delta 60mm over it the northbridge as a temporary fix.

What I have done: Well, the rig does 166 fsb with nice timings (2-3-6-3-1 @ 2.75vmem) no problem. 100% stable, and runs at about 34C cpu temp, 21C mobo at that (1.83ghz).

Now, I figured this was just the beginning of the fun and up the fsb to 175. It booted into windows 2000 pro sp3 no problem, and proceeded to promptly reboot when I tried running sandra. At this point I wondered about the ram and dropped the timings to 2.5-3-6-3-2 and upped the voltage to 2.85vmem. Tried again. Exactly the same thing.

Ok, so its not the RAM. I drop the fsb to 170, and its 3dmark2001se, quake3, vietcong etc stable. with no overvoltage (except mem at 2.75v) and nice timings. Now I work my way up to 173 fsb and it §§§§s out after a few mins of gaming. Check my temps, and they are around 36C/21C after the crash (in bios).

Now, I thought it was too high a PCI bus (173=43mhz, 174=44mhz). I pulled my two PCI cards and disabled the serial ports, parallel port, fdd controller etc in BIOS. With both the network card and sound card removed I tried 174mhz and got the exact same thing.. Huge 3d artifacts in Quake3 and a hardlock a couple mins later.

I've tried turning off AGP fast writes, running 2x etc and upping the VIO to 3.65. My northbridge heatsink is just barely warm with a 60mm delta blowing on it.

So I backed off, and went down to 172fsb. Now, I completed about 25mins of BURNK7 with no problem. After a half hour or so of burnk7, in my experience, a system crashes if its going to. Now, I pronounced this stable and closed burnk7 to go online for a few mins before I started working for 173. 5 mins into my web browsing and the system restarts.

Hmm ok, so 172 ISENT stable. I backed down to 170, ran burnk7 for an hour with no problems. Fired up winamp and opera and sat back.. started loading a webpage and opera gives me a fatal error, instantly hardlocking the system (not just a reboot). Now, my temps where around 34C cpu and 21C mobo all this time. 168 is very stable, and I've been running burnk7 for around 6 hours now.

I'm running out of ideas guys. I was really hoping for atleast 180 fsb, but it looks like I wont even get 175. What am I doing wrong? I know oppainter, ddtung and mricee (for all of you who I have not mentioned, my sincere appologies, these are just the names that come to mind off the icrontic thread I stumbled across last night looking for info) have run the KR7A at fsbs exceeding 190mhz. HOW??

I think my problem may be my power supply, because my voltages are a little on the low side (I upped my vcore to 1.675 from 1.6 for stabilities sake, btw). My 3.3+ is at 3.60, 5+ is at 4.70 and the 12+ is 12.22. Standby voltage is 4.73.. these are fairly stable, but dip or rise on occasion (12v and 5v).

I'm going to try and get ahold of a new PSU in the near future, but as always $ are sparce so it would be great if I could get somewhere with this one if at all possible.

What do you guys think? Give up and buy a new motherboard? Whats the best way to get to atleast 180 fsb? Sorry about the length, and thank you VERY much in advance for your replies :)

-RuKK

[Tweaked!]

If your psu is crapping on you, raising the voltage is going to help minimally. You might be upping the voltage, but you're still only getting whatever amperage the psu is capable of putting out. Plus pc2700 is really only overrated pc2100, so getting that high of fsb is going to be a feat to say the least. For ram that can handle higher fsbs as such, you're going to need pc3200. Another thing to check would be if you're able to change the pci/agp dividers once you get past 166, that is where those components will be too far out of synch and more than likely causing your problems. See if you've got a 1/5th divider option in the bios for those slots. Even with all pci devices removed, you're still using the agp slot.

[RuKK]

Thanks for the reply :)

On the KR7A (kt266a chipset), there is no 5/1 divider to speak of. This is 6ns infinion, so its rated for 166mhz fsb. This particular stuff tends to do 180ish fsb at cas2 with default (2.55) voltage, and 200 with relaxed timings, a little voltage and a little burning.

I may need PC3200 later on, but its totally worthless to me if I cant even do near 200 fsb.

Yeah the PSU is rated for 14 amps on the +3.3, 25 amps on the +5 and 10 amps on the +12v line :/ Not really impressive I know.

-RuKK

[SAE]

I used Samsung PC2700 CTL Week4 for this purpose. Before I voltmodded my VDimm to get 3,1Volts. After that I have been able to do 196MHz Cl2,0-2-5-3-1TCmd with Driving @ Lo (was important for me!). Then after long burn in sessions I did reach my sweet spot at 200 2,0-2-5-3-1T-Lo or 194 2,0-2-5-2-1T-Lo :banana:

Try upping the voltage for ur ram, using only the highpoint for ur hdds (my maxtors were limiting first time so I upgraded to ibm avva) and try to cool ur sb live chip well going such a high pci clock.

BTW there's the possibilty that the infineon likes a special ram slot, my samsung liked 2 and 4 best.

Good luck

SAE :cool:

[RuKK]

Alright I think I'm going to try a vdimm mod once I have a some real cooling on the northbridge and southbridge.

Think a small socket7 HSF is enough for the sb (40mm fan), and a ppga HSF is enough for the northbridge, or do I need something more along the lines of a duron800 stock HSF? I'll put something on the mosfets too before I do the volt mod.

I'll going to try some different dimms, and upping the vmem to 2.85 along with putting the hdds on the highpoint.

What exactly did you use to burn in your system? I've been running burnk7, which I know is good for the chip, but apparently it doesnt put too much stress on the northbridge/mem controller. How is the sandra 2003 memory bandwidth benchmark looped 100+ times? I can loop their proc benches until the cows come home but it wont crash my system at 2.13ghz.. burnk7 BSODs in about 40 mins. Appears to be stable at 2044mhz though (170x12). Why oh why doesnt the kr7a have a 12.5? 12, and 13.. but not 12.5. haha

Thank you very much man :)

-RuKK

[sjohnson]

I cool the NB with the most aggressive HSF that will fit. 3 kr7a here, all will do at least 202 stock and one goes up to 210 without problem (it only has the Vcore Vmod). They may be aged, but they keep up with the newest if you stuff them with the right hardware!

Low volt memory is a must unless you do the Vdimm Vmod. They also use the 5v rail heavily so get the best PSU you can and (possibly) tweak the 5v rail to bring it up above 5v at load.

[berkut]

My KR7A did smth like this when i played with it:

http://republika.pl/berkut0/225.jpg

[SAE]

I first took one mem bench to change the settings for memory benching after. (Hit Ctrl + O)
There U should disable buffering/prefetching and all mmx/sse related stuff. Then make sandra to test 100% of Ur mem (uncheck "use only 50% for memory benchmark" or so) .

The last step is to do the burn in with only the mem test (it will use Ur settings made before) and instruct it to high priority/looping.

That is IMHO the best way to do a burn in. 12hours+ stably mean you often can run the current settings 24/7. I did this with my kingstons and also samsungs. If the sys reboots on you you gotta have to relax timings/ up the voltage/or decrease fsb until ur burn in is stable.

Next step would be some 3d apps to approve your sys stable.

Then repeat procedure for higher settings in small increments...

Greetings

SAE :D

[SAE]

Had a similar problem with my fsb using a new Thoroughbred cpu on my kx7r-333. No go above 158MHz or it was unstable.

Some multipliers worked (obviously 10,5 and upwards), others did not even get into windows.

BTW my ram was good for 221Mhz stably and 231MHz FSB into win2k. :(

When I bought my nf7-s 1.1 the problem disappeared.

MAYBE it is the 4bit FID (IMO responsible for de/encoding multis, voltages etc through the tiny bridges).

[JPP]

The high PCI bus might also affect your HDD´s. Maybe disabling U-DMA mode will help. Use fastest PIO mode instead.
JPP

[RuKK]

Alright guys, I found the problem. Its my vid card. It doesnt like more than 84mhz agp. I have had sidebanding and fast writes off from the start. Now, do you think its the vid card itsself, or the agp controller? Would increasing my vagp help?

I read that adjusting the memory settings may make a difference.. I'm currently running c2-3-3-6-1 with 2.7vmem. I tried relaxing the timings as far as the BIOS allows and it made no difference. Any other tricks I could try? I need my 3000mb/sec of memory bandwidth:p

Thank you very much,

-RuKK

[JPP]

Make that baby work up to 200FSB and you will have 3000 MB/sec :D
JPP

[RuKK]

I'm pretty sure my ram is good for atleast 185fsb at these timings, probably more when I run 3vmem through it ;)

Getting a new vid card isent really a option right now, but if I cant get it stable at 85mhz agp, I dont see it doing 100. I guess I'm going to set my fsb at 175 and start playing with memory settings. Might the DCLK make any difference? Its currently set to auto.

-RuKK

[sjohnson]

Try looping 3dmark01 overnight and while at work at the highest stable FSB for that video card. Might help it.

I've run even ancient Voodoo 3500's at 200+ FSB on my kr7a's, the 3500 TV tuner even works, so I know it can be done.

Are you cooling the NB with more than that puny stock HSF? Plus, make sure your 3.3 and 5v rails aren't dropping too low or fluctuating too much.

[RuKK]

The fan on the northbridge died, so I have a delta 38 suspended over it right now. I have a k6-2 500 stock heatsink that I'm going to stick on there one of these days. Should that be enough with a big 40mm fan? My PSU is total crap and my 5V rail never goes above 4.80, and is usualy down near 4.70. the 3.3 is also a little low. I'll try looping 3dmark at 168 fsb (84mhz agp) tonight. Thank you for your help man.

-RuKK

[sjohnson]

Save up for a new PSU. Get at least a Sparkle 350 or (if budget allows) a TTGI 520SS. Both have tweakable 5v and (I believe) 3.3v rails. You need to get those volts up for this board to shine!

Not sure about the tweakable rails on the TTGI only because I have mine in a kd7e and the onboard voltage regulators keep it up to spec at all times. The Sparkle has a 3.3 adjust for sure.

The k6-2 HSF is probably good for the NB, put the fastest fan you have on it for better effect, and a good layer (but not too much) HSF compound on the NB before mounting it. Wire ties work well to fasten the heatsink to the NB.

[Teus]

hi folks

I've also got trubbles achieving high FSB's
system:
KR7A, mosfet heatsink, passive zalman on NB, 80m fan blowing on NB/mem
1700+ JIUHB
Corsair XMS 3500 HSP

max is 187-180, but higher always makes my machien reboot :(

so you guys are sure it's my PSU (aopen 300W)? I'll check the voltages of my Superflower 350W... if they're better I'll use that one

is the 3.3V rail the most important or will pumping up my 5v/12v rail of my aopen do?

[Teus]

http://www.madshrimps.be/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=28413
got it :)
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4655&highlight=abit+vagp
(copypaste URL in browser adress)

But I don't really understand what I have to do?
1. put a 10K ohm between the resistor and the chip
2. connect the mosfet right of the chip to 12V
3. connect the mosfet right above the chip to hat green thing with copperwire around it

right, or is only #1 necessairy?

[RuKK]

Alright I've looped 3dmark every time I slept, or was away from the computer for more than 40 mins for the past week+ at 168 fsb. I havent gained even another stable mhz on the fsb :(

My 5v rail is fairly low.. so would one of these 5v mods people are doing to 8RDAs help this?

Teus, tell us if that VIO mod works man. I'm considering either a vmem or vio mod, or possibly both. Which one controls the AGP voltage? Isent it vmem?

Still working on getting ahold of a good PSU. Looking at a 400w superflower (enermax clone). Hope it has pots, because this board needs it.

The other thing I was thinking is that I can get a KX7-333R for the same price as a good PSU. That should get me above 200 if my ram will do it. If my vidcard doesnt like more than 84MHz agp, then thats good for like, 210-220mhz fsb with a 5/2/1 divider.

-RuKK

[RuKK]

Well, this is the result of a day's worth of work. I've fooled with almost everything in the BIOS. Right now, my RAM is holding me back:toast:

http://www.tadroberts.com/stuff/180fsb.jpg

183 is almost stable, but crashes once in awhile in games under heavy load. 184 BSODs, and 185 doesnt start loading windows. W00T! Back on track for 200:cool: Thank you very much for your help guys.

-RuKK

[sjohnson]

You'll either need to do the Vdimm mod or find some memory that clocks well at low volts. The Vcore mod will help only to get more out of the CPU, it won't help higher FSB.

And, check the voltage fluctuation on the CPU - if it's swinging more than plus or minus 0.05 of the nominal average voltage to the CPU your rig will likely be unstable. A PSU with a solid and substantial 5v rail is the only real fix for this.

[RuKK]

I would do a vdimm mod, but my 5v rail is low enough as it is. The vcore fluctuates between 1.6 and 1.62 at this speed, which I have been burning at all night and appears to be really nice and stable. A friend of mine may be getting rid of some corsair pc3200, so if I can come up with $ for that and a 430W enermax psu.. :D I cant really see this ram doing more than 190 at totally relaxed timings with any voltage, so some good ram will put me on track for 2-2-2-6-1 @ 200 fsb.

Thought my NIC or hdds where going to be a problem, but everything is doing really nicely at 45mhz pci. DMA and everything. My old quantums have gone from 14.5mb/sec to a bit above 18.5mb/sec last time I checked.

Wonder if 3.2vdimm would get me 2-2-2-6-1 @ 180mhz? Worth a shot, right? ;)

-RuKK

[Susquehannock]

This is an interesting thread as I just bought a new KR7A-RAID
Mobo for $35.:) This KG7-RAID will likely go into the
dedicated server rig I've always wanted to build.

From what I have heard the KG7A-R is a good OverClocker.
And it's much more stable than the older KG7-R with the AMD
Northbridge chipset that I have now.
Is that correct?
Anyone know of some good modding pages for th KR7A board?
ThanX:D

[RuKK]

Check http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1432 for your volt mod needs.

Besides the obvious (4:2:1 divider, voltages, timings, agp fastwrites off), Make sure nothing is set to auto on your memory timings page. Try setting your DCLK to 840ps.

You may want to some different DIMMs if you have trouble getting nice timings or something. For me, it did nothing though.

Seeing you have some good ram there, hopefully you will get up to 190+ easy. Then start the burning ;)

Good luck, and keep us updated man.

-RuKK

[sjohnson]

Play with a single stick, 256M is easiest and try all four DIMM slots to find the one that likes your stick the best. For most it seems to have been the first slot but try them all.

I got best results with DCLK set to 0ps, but often needed to set Auto when first working the board up to speed - NONE of the manual DCLK settings would let it boot until I had it well conditioned. Go figure...

[Susquehannock]

Originally posted by sjohnson
Play with a single stick, 256M is easiest and try all four DIMM slots to find the one that likes your stick the best. For most it seems to have been the first slot but try them all.

I got best results with DCLK set to 0ps, but often needed to set Auto when first working the board up to speed - NONE of the manual DCLK settings would let it boot until I had it well conditioned. Go figure...

The KG7 DIMM slots must be populated in order from one
side to the other. Are you saying the KR7A can run with one
stick in any DIMM slot?

Alas ... no 256Mb sticks here. Not DDR anyway ;)


By the way .... many thanX for the help everyone. :toast:

[sjohnson]

Yes, any slot. Find the best one for your setup.

A single 512 or dual 512's will work, they'll just require more work and may not allow the highest FSB.

[RuKK]

We shall see how the KR7A likes 512 of Corsair PC3200LL in a week or so. Still gotta get a new PSU :/

[Susquehannock]

Originally posted by RuKK
We shall see how the KR7A likes 512 of Corsair PC3200LL in a week or so. Still gotta get a new PSU :/


We shall also see how it likes the 512Mb TwinMOS pc3200 soon too.
But I have to get all the parts to build a second
system first though.