Don't Be Provoked by Boinc Synergy!!

[[XC] Adywebb]

Guys - can I make a plea to everyone NOT to respond to posts by suguruhirahara of Boinc Synergy in the XS team thread at WCG: http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/forums/wcg/viewthread?thread=8615.

He is deliberately stirring and WANTS you to respond - lets not give him or Boinc Synergy the pleasure ;)

Just remind anyone doing so that it is off topic for a team moral boosting thread and carry on as normal :up:



PS. I am away on holiday now 'til 24th September - see you all when I get back :toast:

[Martijn]

Thanks for the heads-up :)


Have a nice holiday!! We'll take care of stuff until you're back :toast:

[[XC] itznfb]

have a nice holiday Ady, thanks for all your contributions. Already looking forward to your return. :toast:

[[XC] mysticmerlin]

No worries, We will leave em in the dust soon enough. He will be here reading to find out what to do to catch up.
Have a good one Ady :toast:

[Movieman]

Dear old Dad told me once that there's a million ways to say FU and only one involves using the words..:D
So we smile and play pattycake with these guys and just blow them away.
That's the biggest FU I can think of..;)

[[XC]melymel]

I think many in the DC community were aware of the flame fest at the rosetta boards and the cuplrits so I think I can happily ignore them in the knowledge that there are plenty of other people out there getting just a sick of it and eventually the BS'ers who are continuing will be told straight. As said lets give em the middle finger by crunching them to the ground ;).

[Movieman]

I think many in the DC community were aware of the flame fest at the rosetta boards and the cuplrits so I think I can happily ignore them in the knowledge that there are plenty of other people out there getting just a sick of it and eventually the BS'ers who are continuing will be told straight. As said lets give em the middle finger by crunching them to the ground ;).
TWO middle fingers my friend..This is a 2 fisted job if ever I heard of one..:D

[Martijn]

TWO middle fingers my friend..This is a 2 fisted job if ever I heard of one..:D
I don't think they will even notice it, as they are at such a low position...

[[XC] serlv]

I agree Ady. They really are pathetic aren't they? Kind of sad to see someone groping in their transparent and pitiful way to stir the pot. Eventually, like a bad case of gas, they'll just go away. You would think a grown man would have something better to do. I guess some people are so in need of a stage and for someone to validate them that they'll stoop to crap like that.

Whatever. I'm so done with the fools. Just curious a little; what set of circumstances in a persons formative years would cause someone to become like that? It sure makes one shake their head in wonder ( and some disgust ).

[lv_dicedealer]

:rofl: BoincSYNERGY == farts

[rob725]

Yep, sorry. At my age, I should know better than to toss a pack of matches to a flameboy.

[Jose]

People: The asses at Boinc Synergy recently realized that by their assholishness they got our team out of Rosetta and free to roam the DC world.

When XtremeSystems decided to go WCG the whinners were smirking and happy because in their fart gorged minds the 4 result quorum was supposed to stop us . I think they are realizing that nothing stops pure power. As they are gasping at the number of credits being piled on in many projects.

Diablo Legion is getting Ready to Rumble ( Imagine my Chagrin to find I was ready to plug everything and found no power cord :rofl: and then when I found one power cord, a major electric storm hit the house so I had to tell my computer guru at home to come tomorrow.) . I think all points out to tomorrow ( Crossing my toes) .

Be warned I will be doing Physics and Math, that is the area XtremeSystems is the weakest in the Vault and yes my goal is that before I die I want to see XtremeSystems number one in the Vault. ( At age 53 I am feeling like an olde phart.


Very OF TOPIC actually Nasty and OT:

I am also trying to see whom do I have to bribe to convince this team that the best revenge we can have on the SETI Whiners is Becoming NUMBER One There in SETI .... just to rub it in.... ah to be number one and then post You can all kiss our Xtreme Behinds you whiners!!!!!

It may do bupcous for science but man , will it feel nice.


I just came from celebrating my BDay with my uncles ( they average 87 years old) ..lets say prime steaks and Geritol and moonshine ( yes my aunts and uncle like moonshine) can make a gentle person like me a tad ornery.

So I better go to bed , before I post in Boinc Synergy MB

PS: My uncles and aunts say TY for the boxed cows you sent. :)

[[XC] riptide]

Well Jose. I'm already trying to make an impression in DPAD and have been doing a bit in SOB already. If you look at my sig, however you'll see that DPAD stats get phucked everyso ofter, Hell even the home page has the counters going backwards. http://stephenbrooks.org/muon1/

Be warned I will be doing Physics and Math, that is the area XtremeSystems is the weakest in the Vault and yes my goal is that before I die I want to see XtremeSystems number one in the Vault.

[[XC]melymel]

Jose remember with the vault it is an accumulation of scores in all categories to give the title so it doesn't matter which category a project is in. We still have that SETI:sick: thing that we need to run to suck major points from quickly but no one can stoop low enough to run it for any period of time :rofl:

[[XC] riptide]

We still have that SETI:sick: thing that we need to run to suck major points from quickly but no one can stoop low enough to run it for any period of time :rofl:
Hmmm check Mely's sig! Numero Uno in SETI for XS! :fact: Wheres my puke bag! :sick::stick: :D

[[XC]melymel]

Hmmm check Mely's sig! Numero Uno in SETI for XS! :fact: Wheres my puke bag! :sick::stick: :D

I know I was sick in the head, please forgive me :(.... :p:

although I only have 400 points which is about half a days work on one cruncher but I'm still number 1 :rofl:

[Jose]

Is there a number one I want is SETI. Hey even if ater we get there we send trhem a message that reads: XtremeSystems to ET...go p*u*k yourself :rofl:

Be warned younglings this is the geritol spiked moonshine speaking. :rofl:

[Jose]

Well Jose. I'm already trying to make an impression in DPAD and have been doing a bit in SOB already. If you look at my sig, however you'll see that DPAD stats get phucked everyso ofter, Hell even the home page has the counters going backwards. http://stephenbrooks.org/muon1/


My Brother is going Orgasmic in SOB :)

[Movieman]

I know I was sick in the head, please forgive me :(.... :p:

although I only have 400 points which is about half a days work on one cruncher but I'm still number 1 :rofl:
melymel..We do need to have a serious talk.. I mean a serious talk..:D

[Movieman]

I mean a REAL serious talk!:p:

[[XC] riptide]

My Brother is going Orgasmic in SOB :)Is that Peter?

Mely! I think its time you experience the ancient ritual of teabagging as a form of punishment! XtremeTeabagging!

[Movieman]

Is that Peter?

Mely! I think its time you experience the ancient ritual of teabagging as a form of punishment! XtremeTeabagging!
OH NO! NOT THAT! Anything but that! I can see it now:
................Riptide Viciously Teabags Melymel:rofl:

[njkid32]

Man, I take a break and then see this WTF! When are they going to quit flaming us...........

RIP and Mel keep it clean:rofl:
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/1041/teabagthumbxg3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[[XC] riptide]

Yep ^^^^^^^^^^ ^ Thats what it looks after 10mins full trottle! Needs a rest!

[[XC]melymel]

melymel..We do need to have a serious talk.. I mean a serious talk..:D

I mean a REAL serious talk! :p:
Mely! I think its time you experience the ancient ritual of teabagging as a form of punishment! XtremeTeabagging!

I apologise please... please... don't kick me into the BS'ers :p:

OH NO! NOT THAT! Anything but that! I can see it now:
................Riptide Viciously Teabags Melymel:rofl:

:rofl: :rofl:

Aslong as it doesn't get sigged by anyone........:rolleyes:

[heater918]

My favorite pic of MM

[Haltech]

Sorry but i set the record straight. Its time to nip them in the ballsack before they get rolling. I also called them out on a challenge but as usual, they wont participate.. Anyhow, crunch on and steam roll :)

[[XC] mysticmerlin]

Anyhow, crunch on and steam roll :)

Yep what he said,^^^^^^^^ Let them talk. Then run over them :banana: :woot:

[Bloody_Sorcerer]

sorry, mely, but there's been to much vicious teabagging as of late for you to get sigged ;)
XS VICIOUSLY TEABAGS BOINCSYNERGY!!!

[Firechicken]

I agree Ady. They really are pathetic aren't they? Kind of sad to see someone groping in their transparent and pitiful way to stir the pot. Eventually, like a bad case of gas, they'll just go away. You would think a grown man would have something better to do. I guess some people are so in need of a stage and for someone to validate them that they'll stoop to crap like that.

Whatever. I'm so done with the fools. Just curious a little; what set of circumstances in a persons formative years would cause someone to become like that? It sure makes one shake their head in wonder ( and some disgust ).


They are compensating for somthing:D



I say give em the two fisted hello with our scores, and bend over and let em look at our hairy manly asses:eek:

[Jose]

They are compensating for somthing:D



I say give em the two fisted hello with our scores, and bend over and let em look at our hairy manly asses:eek:

Man: what happens if they like them? :eek:

[[XC] mysticmerlin]

Man: what happens if they like them? :eek:

:gay: :slapass: :rofl:

[STEvil]

if the darn forum will work i've got about a 5,000 word reply...

edit - quoting here so I dont have to go looking through text files for it later...

It seems feelings are still a bit hot as well, but overall cooling. I took a week off from forums and everything in general. Work was a good excuse as we are in the middle of harvest up here in Alberta and 14-20 hour days on a tractor or a combine give you a lot of time to think about things.

Despite previous postings on our own forums I have decided to crunch WCG with my fellow team members (XS) for now. I do not like the credit system used but as can be seen in this thread the involvement by staff members is happening.. something that happens far, far too little. Such a small gesture can gravitate a great many things ;)

The question was asked of what the Cruncher "optimized" files are and I dont believe it has been answered well enough yet as this question has raised points on morality and proficiency.

Put simply enough, the optimizations present in Crunchers' files give the potential to inflate the floating point MIPS (Whetstone) and integer MIPS (Dhrystone) based on instruction sets used to run the BOINC based benchmark. These instruction sets include (but are not limited to) MMX(+), 3DNOW(+), SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSE4 and etc.

Put forth in the question of proficiency (work unit produced per time unit) the cruncher optimized files do not produce more physical output work per time used because the projects utilizing the BOINC infrastructure are not (most appear not to be) optimized to use the many varied instruction (sub)sets. Subsequently the question of the validity of the methods used to benchmark rises. Due to heavy memory use or methods used to produce work units on the CPU core the L1/L2/FSB/HT may "thrash" causing a large slowdown in system performance. The Whetstone/Dhrystone benchmark system in and of itself is essentially flawed in this manner as it does not produce a benchmark number concurrent with actual system performance per work performed. (ie: one type of work is done to benchmark the system while another is done to perform actual work. Sort of like lifting a brick and carrying it 20 feet compared to pushing a wheel barrow full of bricks 10 miles).

This leads into the question on morality. Due to the flaw of the benchmark system in place, can you really cheat? Some believe the benchmark numbers produced do not reflect system performance adequately (myself included) and therefor choose to run an optimized client to produce numbers more in line with what they believe to be correct. This is not frowned upon by the project coordinators and thus the acceptance has become widespread among those who wish to compete with others in the stats for fun. In full this is a failure both on part of Berkely for using a flawed system, allowing the users to use optimizations, and in part the users for embracing the systems when they should have browbeat Berkley for showing open ineptitude..... (yes, this "small" screw-up does ruffle my feathers).

In the end this leaves everyone out in the cold. Berkely gives us a flawed system to use for performance matrices, we get called cheaters for attempting to remain competitive with the rest of the higher end stats junkies (love stats, they show me i'm doing something for the project!), and you guys lose us when we chose to move ahead looking for a better project because nobody is doing anything about the situation.

One thing I should point out however, is that there are past examples of how to do "benchmark" systems correctly. For instance Seti@home CLASSIC performed such that completing one work unit generated one point. D2OL and several other projects have also used this method which I believe to be one of the most fool proof and truthful methods available. Some of these same projects which succeeded for the user base also had a wide variety of clients available to utilize the feature sets of CPU's better. Seti@Home Classic probably had nearly 100 clients for the many OS's and CPU's and architectures. F@H is even coming out with one that works for GPU's!

Anyways, the point is that a system which is flawed and ignored from its inception is hard to measure how corrupt it was and how corrupt it has become. The simple answer is to drop it, not toss it around like a hot potato.

Thank you for your time. I hope i've answered more questions than will be raised [:">]

[meshmesh]

@serlv: very nicely put. Did you post this on the WCG forum? I think it is a very good reply, but whether we want to reply at ALL is the question here. Me personally, I think that what yo have mentioned is understood by both project management (IBM) and by the community advisors (who may be trying to claim ignorance). I rather send a different message.

If you don't like what we see, sent your comment to the IBM management via the "contact us" link on the site. We must keep out of ALL discussion that relates to credit issues. We are here to crunch not to teach. Period.

As for Boinc Synergy, may I suggest that people do not lump everyone into one basket. There are many hundreds of honourable Boinc Synergy team members who do not necessary agree with the actions of the few idiots who claim to be members of BSyn.

Yes, I admit that when I got angry I forgot this fact and labelled all BSyn members as "xxxxxx". But that is not accurate and I really think we need to cool this down and use better language. Please remember that his forum is public and I would not feel happy if I read similar comments regarding XS on their forum either. So please refrain from insulting comments. We are not like this.

At the time we are looking into recruitment into XS, this kind of posting on the forum will do a lot of harm. I see no value in it at all. So please STOP. And yes, I am guilty more than most, so this goes double for me.

Edit: spelling.

[Movieman]

My favorite pic of MM
I have more gray in my beard than that guy!:rofl:
You sure that isn't you? You are younger than I am!:D

[meshmesh]

I have more gray in my beard than that guy!

:rofl:

[Movieman]

:rofl:
Hey, you too my friend will grow old some day! Just hope that at that time your mind keeps it's youth and doesn't look upon those younger than you and sneer at their brashness.:D
What keeps me young are my interests and the company I keep and also you guys..I see lots of brilliant minds here, your's included!
Now respect your elders!:p:

[[XC]melymel]

As for Boinc Synergy, may I suggest that people do not lump everyone into one basket. There are many hundreds of honourable Boinc Synergy team members who do not necessary agree with the actions of the few idiots who claim to be members of BSyn.

Yes, I admit that when I got angry I forgot this fact and labelled all BSyn members as "xxxxxx". But that is not accurate and I really think we need to cool this down and use better language. Please remember that his forum is public and I would not feel happy if I read similar comments regarding XS on their forum either. So please refrain from insulting comments. We are not like this.

At the time we are looking into recruitment into XS, this kind of posting on the forum will do a lot of harm. I see no value in it at all. So please STOP. And yes, I am guilty more than most, so this goes double for me.

Edit: spelling.

Yep I agree there and was thinking about it the other day, it is only a handfull of the BS'ers who are doing this the majority are running SETI and haven't spoken out.

However as for the bit I highlighted in bold have a read of their nice little thread: http://www.boincsynergy.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7582 :rolleyes: That has really annoyed me :slapass:

[[XC] mysticmerlin]

Oh, who care's? They are all science science science but they are still talking numbers over and over. I only made it to page 5 (sorry it was killing me) and that is all I seen.
Lets send a spy over there and see what they will cry about on WCG when we are #1 all over again.

[Jose]

Is that Peter?

Mely! I think its time you experience the ancient ritual of teabagging as a form of punishment! XtremeTeabagging!


Yes he is Peter.

Rip: I just hope that when you use the teabagging term you are using it as windsurfers use it and not as it is defined in here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teabagging

[[XC]melymel]

Yes he is Peter.

Rip: I just hope that when you use the teabagging term you are using it as windsurfers use it and not as it is defined in here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teabagging

unfortunately the one in the wiki is the one he is refering too :p: I told riptide not to search for it when haltech started this but no rip had to g o and look for it :rofl:

[Movieman]

Yep I agree there and was thinking about it the other day, it is only a handfull of the BS'ers who are doing this the majority are running SETI and haven't spoken out.

However as for the bit I highlighted in bold have a read of their nice little thread: http://www.boincsynergy.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7582 :rolleyes: That has really annoyed me :slapass:
I just read that thread, all 10 pages of us. haven't seen that much BS, statements taken out of context and just general garbage in a long time.
A funny one, they showed on one post a image taken from the Rosetta forum of a post made by CarlH from the Teddies team stating that backdating shouldn't be done and they identify him as from XS. They can't even get the players straight..:D
And a post back to 2004 from Jeff here at XS showing how to set up a machine properly on D2OL..Jeez, talk about grasping at straws..
That guy sugihara?..He is a #1,Class A,bonefide fruitcake.
The simple answer, we destroy them in WCG..and stop and take a leak as we pass by..
Gravity will take care of the rest!:p:

[brot]

Note: Hi njkid, cool you are back again :)

-


Be warned I will be doing Physics and Math, that is the area XtremeSystems is the weakest in the Vault and yes my goal is that before I die I want to see XtremeSystems number one in the Vault. ( At age 53 I am feeling like an olde phart.)

Well,.. I ll do my best to do you that favor - but as you said. pure power is working here, so it will be way before you die ;)

-

Dont listen to the whiners. There are enough WU's for everyone so if they cant stand that we have more points they can try to beat us ;)

[Firechicken]

Man: what happens if they like them? :eek:

Heh, well we will have to Duct Tape Phone books to our asses:D.... Right after they see the manliness

[meshmesh]

Just went through the thread. Same names, same crab. But BS has many more members than those few. So for the time being I am sticking with my opinion, that this team must have a silent majority of decent people, and should not be judged by the ill manners of the few loud voices. hope their leadership (if there is any) wakes up before those guys give their team such a bad reputation.

Worst of all, I found a few names in this thread of people that I have admired and respected in the past. What a shame.

[Bloody_Sorcerer]

I have more gray in my beard than that guy!:rofl:
You sure that isn't you? You are younger than I am!:D
and he has more hair in his beard than you do on your head :D:D

[STEvil]

Worst of all, I found a few names in this thread of people that I have admired and respected in the past. What a shame.

If you are referring to anyone on XS, then you should be proud. If anything we post causes a fall-out, it would only show a lack of willingness to do what is right on their (WCG's) part. Exact same as what happened on R@H.

[Haltech]

We Xtreme cheaters because we are using SSE opti's? lol that is some funny :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:. But i guess if i had 4 AMD K6-2 300's crunching and was getting my ass handed to me daily, than i would be upset too :clap:


These guys keep making statements about the science... yet, they are the ones callling the cheater card based on credits awarded. What a bunch of pussies!

[[XC] leviathan18]

We Xtreme cheaters because we are using SSE opti's? lol that is some funny :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:. But i guess if i had 4 AMD K6-2 300's crunching and was getting my ass handed to me daily, than i would be upset too :clap:


These guys keep making statements about the science... yet, they are the ones callling the cheater card based on credits awarded. What a bunch of pussies!

yes actually that what they are... they just cant believe we can take any project so dont waste in them we should focus i getting our daily in the million and recruiting people

[meshmesh]

If you are referring to anyone on XS, then you should be proud. If anything we post causes a fall-out, it would only show a lack of willingness to do what is right on their (WCG's) part. Exact same as what happened on R@H.

No STEvil, "this thread" meant the 10 page thread in Boinc Synergy site. I was refering to someone who belonged to their group who I have dealt with in the past when I was crunshing another project before I joined XS. I always thought he was a good person. Thus my comment.

I was not refering to anyone in XS at all. hope no one misunderstood my comment.

[STEvil]

The 10 page thread on boinc synergy didnt ruffle my feathers alot really. Given that we have a lounge they couldnt see all that was going on and thus their viewpoint didnt have much to go on.

What does annoy me is that nobody has the testicles to take on these flawed systems of awarding credits that most DC projects utilize.

edit

Anyone replying in the thread, please be on your best behavior. Dagorath's looking for some fighting (shame he's putting a bad example to the name..).

[meshmesh]

The 10 page thread on boinc synergy didnt ruffle my feathers alot really. Given that we have a lounge they couldnt see all that was going on and thus their viewpoint didnt have much to go on.

I cannot say for certain that this is a fact. You remember my opinion on that one.

What does annoy me is that nobody has the testicles to take on these flawed systems of awarding credits that most DC projects utilize.
Agree with you. I just don't know whether the whole idea of awarding credit is worth it in the frst place. Does it really help the projects? If BOINC has never introduced the credit system from the start, would this actually result in less participation? Difficult to tell after the fact. My guess is that BOINC wanted a simple method to calculate FLOPS attached to projects, then they decided to multiply it with time to provide intangible credit, but never thought in their wildest dreams about what would this result into.

This thing is now a major headache. Nothing short of a total rethink of the credit system will work. The idea of benchmarking has to go away IMO. Will never work consistently across platforms, OSs, or even account for project applications (optimized vs not ....). When I look around at the professional benshmarking software it is clear how difficult it really is.

Maybe just add up the CPU core time dedicated to crunching (reported securely) irrespective of machine specs as an indication of commitment effort, with the idea that everyone brings in what they can based on their capability because they really want to help, and let it be at that (sort of people putting in voluntary community work hours irrespective of their background education...). One hour is one hour and every one does his best.

That would be much more easy and makes everyone happy and all this bad feelings would just go away, me think.

[STEvil]

In effect cpu time is what was used with seti@home classic (in that cpu run time was less the faster your cpu was).

One work unit per credit. If you had a fast cpu you made lots of credits. If you used a client optimized to your CPU's instruction sets or operating system, you made more credits.

Issuing a set number of credits per work unit is really the only way to go. This works fine for projects which dole out work units in a non-time based fashion (ie: you cannot set a preference for 2hr wu's over 24 hr wu's) but falls apart once you let the user select 2 hr long wu's over anything else.

Not even taking into account how to figure out how long the wu's are when you create them.... unless on the creation end run time doesnt really matter, then you can just make a 4hr wu worth 2x a 2hr wu and make the program run them the correct length of time. But then will a p1 running a 2hr wu and a conroe running a 2hr wu get the same points in 2hrs?

It really is a mess. I rather miss the set credit per wu that seti@home classic and d2ol did.

[rob725]

It seems to me that each unit has a certain number of calculations done in a loop. Just count em as the wu is processed and return that with the result. I know that's easier said than done and that not all calcs are the same, but this is mostly highly repetitive work and over time it would even out.

[ShootStraight]

Nice posts, STEvil and Rob!

You handled that facista quite well! Praise be unto you both!

-SS

[ShootStraight]

That man has some very very serious issues. I think he really and truly HATES us. Like an actual blood lust... White-hot blind rage.

Amazing...

-SS

[rob725]

He's just a PoS flameboy.

[STEvil]

I wonder if the WCG staff will see his posts and make an example of him?

[ShootStraight]

He acts as if he is very secure that he wont face any repercussion from his tirade. That or the guy just blew a gasket and had a psycotic break from reality.

I hope they dont delete it all and let him wriggle off the hook.

-SS

[L0$t Pr0PhEt]

that guy needs some spanking :(

[[cTx]Philosophy]

Id really like to punch him in his big fataaa lippzzzzz..

At first I was gonna make an account there just to argue with him and have some fun, but reading his posts actually made me start getting hot and adrennaline was pumping, He really needs some help or something..

He honestly needs to get out more..

[[XC] mysticmerlin]

Just has nothing better to do I guess.

[meshmesh]

This time let him get on with it and dig himself in.

Absolutely zero posts from us.

When the adjectives starts to be posted, all is needed is a comment to you know who and end of story.

Me personally am not willing to be part of any new flame wars for any reason directly or indirectly.

[lv_dicedealer]

Sorry, I couldn't stop myself after he suggested to Brot that he leave Team XS.

I made my point, silence from here on out.....