xs's dynamic is changing for the worse

[b0bd0le]

before, it was much more open, much more friendly

now, maybe due to the influx of novices people are much more inflammatory/less patient. There is much animosity found on this forum that just a year ago.

:(

[nn_step]

no worries. Once this Conroe buzz finishes, then it'll settle down. The asses will be chased off and the noobs will be taught. Balance will be restored

[Okda]

no worries. Once this Conroe buzz finishes, then it'll settle down. The asses will be chased off and the noobs will be taught. Balance will be restored

Very WELL said

[dinos22]

looks who's talking

thread starter of "i am getting my new conroe delivered here is the full tracking transcript"
http://xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=114890

:rolleyes:

stop make :banana::banana::banana::banana: threads like this and it will be a much friendlier place what can i say :shrug:

[Okda]

LOOOOOOOOOL

ya honeslty u should not start a thread like this one while u have a thread like the one dinos22 mentioned above

[b0bd0le]

looks who's talking

thread starter of "i am getting my new conroe delivered here is the full tracking transcript"
http://xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=114890

:rolleyes:

stop make :banana::banana::banana::banana: threads like this and it will be a much friendlier place what can i say :shrug:


thread starter of WHAT :banana::banana::banana::banana:ING STEPPING ARE YOU GUYS GETTING OFF OF NEWEGG

in case you couldn't read it last time, I will quote it for you:



it's taken long enough! stupid labor day weekend :D

i bought it off of newegg last friday... I hope it's a 627

what have you guys been getting from newegg?


do you have anything objective to say, or are you just going to make ad hominem attacks, dinos22? :stick:

this is exactly what i'm talking about XS.

[itznfb]

and how many threads are people supposed to answer that question in?

[b0bd0le]

and how many threads are people supposed to answer that question in?

well, i've searched for e6600 steppings from newegg and i haven't found anything... if you know of a thread that has e6600 steppings from newegg that are recent, by all means please show me. :)

[[XC] leviathan18]

just wait until you get it is a lucky thing.... now wew are going to have the same issue from amd in the intel section a 10000000 threads about steppings

[itznfb]

exactly why i created that database for the opterons... people still created threads about steppings

[MrDeeds]

well, i've searched for e6600 steppings from newegg and i haven't found anything... if you know of a thread that has e6600 steppings from newegg that are recent, by all means please show me. :)

This thread has a pretty active discussion on steppings and the majority bought from newegg.



I think you need to be honest with yourself and admit you really didnt need to open a thread on this particular topic. There are 10 to 15 new threads open on steppings everyday.

I do agree with you on the fact that their seems to be a group of people that are sick of the stupidity and seem to jump down other peoples throat a little too hard. Its like they wait around for a goofy thread and just pounce. Its not like they are educating the poster and letting them know that starting a new thread on the particular topic wasnt needed. They just seem to be trying to get the message across to the poster that they dont belong and that really isnt cool.

The perfect example of this was the guy that did over 600fsb on the dq6, one person questioned the validity of his post and it just started an avalanche of insults. Some people here seem to be in love with the sight of their post count and dont really help anyone or have anything new or thought provoking to say.

[itznfb]

The perfect example of this was the guy that did over 600fsb on the dq6, one person questioned the validity of his post and it just started an avalanche of insults. Some people here seem to be in love with the sight of their post count and dont really help anyone or have anything new or thought provoking to say.

in everyone's defense on that thread... when a no-name OCer with 1 post come in and posts a world record screenshot that looks photoChopped with no validation link... you're asking to get slammed.

[MrDeeds]

exactly why i created that database for the opterons... people still created threads about steppings

Im not sure how things are run in the amd section but the intel section is just a joke.

There is an official core 2 duo overclocking sticky that hasnt been updated in weeks. There are active posts on a daily basis but who is updating the database. If there already is chaos and you throw in some novice forum users. It can only get worse. Im not putting down the mods of that particular forum because i've never been a mod for or even ran a forum before but there has to be a better way.

[masterofpuppets]

It's Conroe I tells ya, it's attracting all the newbz and spamhats.

EDIT: The solution is to destroy Conroe and any traces that it ever existed.

[afireinside]

before, it was much more open, much more friendly

now, maybe due to the influx of novices people are much more inflammatory/less patient. There is much animosity found on this forum that just a year ago.

:(

You've been here since 2003. You should know how XS used to work. Posting your tracking is NOT worthy content of the Intel CPU/mobo section. If you wanted to ask what steppings people have been getting from the egg, then ask that, not say LOL MY CPU IS COMING TO ME LOOK AT TRACKING then add in that you want to know what steppings people have been getting.

[b0bd0le]

You've been here since 2003. You should know how XS used to work. Posting your tracking is NOT worthy content of the Intel CPU/mobo section. If you wanted to ask what steppings people have been getting from the egg, then ask that, not say LOL MY CPU IS COMING TO ME LOOK AT TRACKING then add in that you want to know what steppings people have been getting.


it's semantics man

and i do know how xs used to work, there weren't nearly as many self righteous ass holes. I'm not suggesting that you are one btw.

maybe it's just the intel side? i used the amd part back then. It seems people are much more eager to flame/get mad than before.


you've been here for awhile, afi. What's your take on XS dynamic? Has it changed? Is it changing? Or I am completely off base?

[dinos22]

fark you too man :mad:

[b0bd0le]

fark you too man :mad:

that wasn't aimed at you dinos :D

someone else in that thread :)

[dinos22]

ah ok sorry i kinda lost it there LOL

[b0bd0le]

ah ok sorry i kinda lost it there LOL
:toast:

[afireinside]

it's semantics man

and i do know how xs used to work, there weren't nearly as many self righteous ass holes. I'm not suggesting that you are one btw.

maybe it's just the intel side? i used the amd part back then. It seems people are much more eager to flame/get mad than before.


you've been here for awhile, afi. What's your take on XS dynamic? Has it changed? Is it changing? Or I am completely off base?

XS has changed A LOT. I came off a bit harsh on you and I'm sorry about that. I have nothing against you. XS has taken a turn for the worse lately with new members due to the conroe rush and they seem to act like it's just another hardware forum. It's lost a lot of the "xtreme" but it's still by far the best OC forum and resource on the net :toast:

[J-Mag]

Well the only constant is change...

If you expect XS to be the same or go back to the "glory days" you are deluding yourself.

[Fr3ak]

So does owning a Conroe make me a bad person?
Hopefully not.
I still dont get why XS changed a lot over the past 6 months. I cant see why a new CPU architecture ruins people's behavier. There are new CPUs and vid cards out every months, so whats the problem with latest releases?
Is it because of fanboyism?
Well, honestly I dont know, I usually stop reading threads when people start to act like fools.

[Dumo]

I think all is ok. with XS. If its all about "Conroe 5Ghz. quadruple prime stable" or "999/1300 X1950CF 3D runs" then its not gonna be fun:)
Conroe came marching in here with the whole nine yards, so I think we should let it go and not taken it too seriously;) As long as we post within the rules.

[afireinside]

No you're a good person... Well actually I hate you because I get distracted and a few other things when I see that sig ;)

The reason it's so out of control is that since XS members had conroe so early and it was so hyped, people from all over started pouring in and causing problems.

[kiwi]

Maybe moderators should start deleting them :D

Generally, I am against deleting threads and posts but what else?

[[XC] moddolicous]

So does owning a Conroe make me a bad person?
Hopefully not.
I still dont get why XS changed a lot over the past 6 months. I cant see why a new CPU architecture ruins people's behavier. There are new CPUs and vid cards out every months, so whats the problem with latest releases?
Is it because of fanboyism?
Well, honestly I dont know, I usually stop reading threads when people start to act like fools.
Between the performance increase from anything else to conrow and amount of new hardware implemented by it (DDR2 mainly), people are gonna have questions. Plus, when they arrive here and realize that there is a way to make their computer faster for cheap/free, then the questions really develop. About 99% of xtremesystems (I would say) come here and create one thread asking every single question they have. I did it, and have learned since then. I'm sure it was like this when 754/939 came out. I have a feeling ~March or so it should go down.

[bachus_anonym]

Guys, it's true that XS has somewhat changed since Conroe news started to pop here and there. We have had almost 9000 new registrations in the last 6 months out of which 2000 are more or less active, here and there posting members. A lot of traffic happens in Intel section and moderating there is not easy, it's just a bit overwhelming. Almost 100 threads a day in Intel section are posted in or created... When I can, I move threads to more General sections, like General Hardware. This is the place where "What to buy" or "Judge my Conroe/AM2 setup", etc will most likely end up. I used to merge a lot of threads when everyone was looking for Conroes and posting stores' links and that worked quite well. I'd like to see more consolidated threads, especially regarding new mobos, problem and fixes stuff, etc...

We will try to do our best to preserve old XS spirit but some things just happen and can't be controlled easily. Conroe hype will calm down after a while and hopefully we'll be getting more of the "results threads" and less of the "help me threads" or same questions being asked over and over again...:)

[dinos22]

and just when conroe dies down a bit K8L will kick in with DDR3 and all hell will break loose :D :D :D :D :D :D :woot:

[ozzimark]

I used to merge a lot of threads when everyone was looking for Conroes and posting stores' links and that worked quite well. I'd like to see more consolidated threads, especially regarding new mobos, problem and fixes stuff, etc...)
is it possible to send a forum-wide pm, and have new members recieve a pm with a quick list of "do" and "don't", and helpful pointers? i bet that will cut down on a LOT of the rampant thread posting ;)

though there is something else i want to mention, but being a different topic entirely, i'll make a new thread for it when i have a few moments :toast:

[Fr3ak]

Guys, it's true that XS has somewhat changed since Conroe news started to pop here and there. We have had almost 9000 new registrations in the last 6 months out of which 2000 are more or less active, here and there posting members. A lot of traffic happens in Intel section and moderating there is not easy, it's just a bit overwhelming. Almost 100 threads a day in Intel section are posted in or created... When I can, I move threads to more General sections, like General Hardware. This is the place where "What to buy" or "Judge my Conroe/AM2 setup", etc will most likely end up. I used to merge a lot of threads when everyone was looking for Conroes and posting stores' links and that worked quite well. I'd like to see more consolidated threads, especially regarding new mobos, problem and fixes stuff, etc...

We will try to do our best to preserve old XS spirit but some things just happen and can't be controlled easily. Conroe hype will calm down after a while and hopefully we'll be getting more of the "results threads" and less of the "help me threads" or same questions being asked over and over again...:)


You explained it very well.
I know a few forums, that have a noob section, so they can ask all kind of stuff they want to know. That way the Intel section would be more informative for "advanced" users.
I know its very hard to understand some things when you are new to XS. Was the same for me and I alraedy had some OC and genral computer knowledge. I tried not to ask silly questions. I tried not to "disturb" the pros with those questions, so I made frequent use of the search function first.
Unfortunately not everyone acts the same way.
Of course I am way from being perfect too. I sent the first 3 or 4 PMs to OPP at a time he broke 3D Mark records asking him way too silly questions.

Just for reference: With "silly" questions I meanbasic computer based questions, that dont belong to a section like the Intel section where more xtreme stuff is being posted. Of course there are no silly questions, the only silly questions are those you dont ask.

[MrDeeds]

I know a few forums, that have a noob section, so they can ask all kind of stuff they want to know. That way the Intel section would be more informative for "advanced" users.
I know its very hard to understand some things when you are new to XS.

The best suggestion i've seen posed yet. A noob section would be great. The more established members that choose to go in there and help with the silly questions can. The ones that have no interest in dealing with silly wouldnt have to see it.

[[XC] DragonOrta]

You explained it very well.
I know a few forums, that have a noob section, so they can ask all kind of stuff they want to know. That way the Intel section would be more informative for "advanced" users.
I know its very hard to understand some things when you are new to XS. Was the same for me and I alraedy had some OC and genral computer knowledge. I tried not to ask silly questions. I tried not to "disturb" the pros with those questions, so I made frequent use of the search function first.

I think that most of the people that you see that have stuck around are the people that did like you and read alot and searched before posting useless threads. The ones that didn't usually got chased off, just like they should have. It's simple forum etiquette.

And as for the noob section, that's what we call [H]

[Movieman]

The idea of a n00b section is excellent. A place for people to ask questions without being flamed.
Maybe some of the senior guys take some time with it and fill it with links like:
"So you just got your conroe: read these 75 threads and learn."
I think that would help everyone and maybe drop the stress level on the whole forum a bit..

[syne_24]

thread starter of WHAT :banana::banana::banana::banana:ING STEPPING ARE YOU GUYS GETTING OFF OF NEWEGG

in case you couldn't read it last time, I will quote it for you:



do you have anything objective to say, or are you just going to make ad hominem attacks, dinos22? :stick:

this is exactly what i'm talking about XS.

There is a thread which fit your question perfectly. I'm still suprise why it isnt sticky for the moment yet.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=108693

[b0bd0le]

There is a thread which fit your question perfectly. I'm still suprise why it isnt sticky for the moment yet.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=108693


awesome, thanks for the heads up mate

so is there going to be a noob section?

[Weedsqueezer]

is it possible to send a forum-wide pm, and have new members recieve a pm with a quick list of "do" and "don't", and helpful pointers? i bet that will cut down on a LOT of the rampant thread posting ;)



I know this idea isn't in the form of a PM; but possibly a thread, or even better an entire section? Agreed good idea :stick:Forum FAQs and Guidelines (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=120)

All in good fun :)
I for one would like to see a section devoted to all the darn abbreviations commonly found on a forum! LOL for the XS VP AKA DDT to the DC P3 DDR3 SLI DFI with the PCI runnin so much DC on the C2D to make you wanna PWN the SOB and WCG ...(say that 10 times fast)

[ocmyface]

NO NO NO! No noob section, no rate my system section! Anyone remember AMDforums from back in the day? they had the same problem when the tbred-b and bartons started tearing intel apart; so they made a noob section, a rate my system section, "ask stupid questions here" section. Now look at the place! its almost as bad as [H]!

i think the forum-wide PM would also be a good idea, unfortunately i doubt it would work on most people, most people dont even know there are stickies adn the rest dont care. why should they, they dont get in trouble if they do something blatantly wrong and stupid, someone will flame them then 50 noobs spring on and say wtf is your problem, a war starts, and the thread gets locked. no harm done - just more animosity in XS

as far as i can see, there are two ways to handle this. either start issuing warnings, deleting threads, handing out 3 day vacations (for everyone), etc OR everyone wait until conroe crazes die off and quit starting nuclear wars in every thread you don't like, use the report button and let mods handle it.

personally i recommend number one becuase as dinos22 said:
as soon as conroe finally dies off and its damage is done then K8L will be right around the corner AND GOD HELP US ALL IF XS IS IN THE SAME CONDITION AS IT IS NOW WHEN K8L ROLLS AROUND

[kiwi]

Noob section, I love this word :D
But maybe change it, sometimes noob sounds kind of offensive but funny :D

[n00b 0f l337]

Newbie is what you mean,
Noob is demeaning, well, unless your me ;)

[sc00p]

So does owning a Conroe make me a bad person?
Hopefully not.Yes.


I still dont get why XS changed a lot over the past 6 months. I cant see why a new CPU architecture ruins people's behavier. It's the proof of devil's work :D

I'm an angel :slobber:

[masterofpuppets]

We need a section for new members, that the new users must stay in until they've been evaluated as being intelligent enough to venture out into the big, intimidating XS world.

[sierra_bound]

What bothers me the most are newer members who come here with a self-righteous attitude that they no doubt learned from other forums. That attitude includes the view that all benchmarking is BS, anything that's not Prime-stable is not even worth considering, ES chips are a form of cheating, etc.

I keep telling people to look at the name of this place, "XtremeSystems" but it doesn't seem to sink in. As Dumo mentioned, if this place is just going to be about Prime stability, then it's going to get boring really fast.

For many people, overclocking is just a hobby. It's just a way of having fun. Don't people believe in having fun anymore?

[Vapor]

What bothers me the most are newer members who come here with a self-righteous attitude that they no doubt learned from other forums. That attitude includes the view that all benchmarking is BS, anything that's not Prime-stable is not even worth considering, ES chips are a form of cheating, etc.

I keep telling people to look at the name of this place, "XtremeSystems" but it doesn't seem to sink in. As Dumo mentioned, if this place is just going to be about Prime stability, then it's going to get boring really fast.

For many people, overclocking is just a hobby. It's just a way of having fun. Don't people believe in having fun anymore?Well said....:clap:

[Holst]

The idea of a n00b section is excellent. A place for people to ask questions without being flamed.
Maybe some of the senior guys take some time with it and fill it with links like:
"So you just got your conroe: read these 75 threads and learn."
I think that would help everyone and maybe drop the stress level on the whole forum a bit..

The mods and the "senior guys" allready do allot to help less experienced members.

The ONLY way for you guys who are worried about loosing the XS spirit of helping each other is to keep it alive yourselves. This means YOU guys in this thread taking a little time to answer those repeated posts and question ... to write guides and to compile complicated subjects into single posts to become stickies.

You cant expect the "senior guys" and mods to do everything. If you know how to help somebody then POST and enswer the question. If you dont know the anwser USE THE SEARCH yourself and post them a link.... Hell.. you might even LEARN something yourself in the process!!!!.

Flaming "newbies" is something they do at other forums, at XS we helpe people.

Think about it.

If you do find a amember who repeatedly post in the wrong section, or posts generally stupid or pointless posts or topics. DONT flame them!!. Grab a load of links to there worst posts and send them to a mod who will then try and sort out the problem.. thats what the mods are there for. Help them out and make there jobs easyer.

[itznfb]

What bothers me the most are newer members who come here with a self-righteous attitude that they no doubt learned from other forums. That attitude includes the view that all benchmarking is BS, anything that's not Prime-stable is not even worth considering, ES chips are a form of cheating, etc.

I keep telling people to look at the name of this place, "XtremeSystems" but it doesn't seem to sink in. As Dumo mentioned, if this place is just going to be about Prime stability, then it's going to get boring really fast.

For many people, overclocking is just a hobby. It's just a way of having fun. Don't people believe in having fun anymore?

:eek: people actually agree with me that prime stability isn't the say all to overclocking?!

[M.Beier]

Havnt seen that "all benchmarkings is BS" yet, luckily, would hmm... Piss me off 2tm ;)

People being jealouse on ES chips, thats not possible to prevent, but mostly, people just shake their head and go "jebus christ.."...

Sierra bound, I disagree bigtime, overclocking is not a hobby - its a SPORT :D

[DTU_XaVier]

The noobs are only spreading because people on "their own" forums link to XS, simply because "we" have the most amazing people, generating results like never before... Since S939 and until now with Conroe, performance has been increasing in an ever steeper climb... Naturally, they might think themselves good enough to come here, having oc'ed their P4 by 10%, and the entire world should know it when they squeeze out that extra 20MHz... That's what they're used to, and they don't know that XS.org is different... I haven't been active on this forum for more than 10 months or so, and I have been learning new things constantly... For example that XS is a place to only be in, if you understand what "Xtreme" is...
Another thing attracting "n00bs" as of late (well, since the AXP 1700 JIHUB days) is that oc'ing suddenly seems to be all hardware, no skill, no luck... They see people posting steppings left and right, might see an awsome result, and think that the entire system is suddenly "l33t"... They don't care to go and test for themselves, they just expect to do 3.6GHz on a E6400, because they saw one of the Gurus do it with the same stepping as they might luckily have... It's sad really...

I say, to everybody... STOP looking at steppings, just ram the damn thing in there, and GO! :woot: just like the old days :)

Best Regards :toast:

[cadaveca]

I just had to post...


It's strange how people are quite quick to complain, but noone is actively taking a role to change how things are. Besides the usual suspects who regularily contribute to the forum, offering new info on stuff, or giving help where it's needed, noone else seems to step up to the plate and start MAKING things change.

I try to post help where i can...if there's an issue out there that i know a fix for, I eagerly post the answer. People ask for a opinion, I post mine, and try to back it up...even if it's wrong...purely for the sake of getting info out.

I choose my words carefully, and try to not insult people...


This thread is the perfect example of how this forum is declining...frankly, if i was a moderator here, it would have been deleted and the poster given a 3-day ban...because after all, noone is forced to read the threads here...everyone does that of thier own accord. Nothing that interests you? Come back later, and maybe there will be then.

Don't like my post? There's a fancy red triangle under my name here...report it. Otherwise, keep reading and be on your way...

[uOpt]

Think of it this way:

Without any new members there would be no new cool members either.

Ideally, people join and become "cool" if they fit the forum culture and leave if they don't. Forums that only "accept" people who are already cool die out. It doesn't work that way.

[ozzimark]

Sierra bound, I disagree bigtime, overclocking is not a hobby - its a SPORT :D
or a game :cool:
i tend to think of it as a gigantic puzzle of sorts

[sierra_bound]

Sierra bound, I disagree bigtime, overclocking is not a hobby - its a SPORT :D
As in blood sport?:D

[ozzimark]

As in blood sport?:D
if you have a sharp case, yes :p:

[CrazyXP1700]

It's great people acknolege this... but try and come up with a solution...

I hate how we have the Intel posts (and i guess AM2 assuming their using soldered IHS's) getting burried in 5 pages of posts in the intel section...
true it's because of the Conroe Craze... but still

Some ground breaking posts from both Myself and FreeCable Guy... and it gets burried in the pages overnight...

sorting thru hundreds of posts on Core2Duo crap... just to dig up truely xtreme information that FEW users thought was possible is VERY discouraging...

true it's in the LN2 section aswell... because it is about outrageous, but it is relavent information considering how bad some of the IHS's are...

i think they should have 2 sections... one with basic information, stepping databases and overclocking... all the stickys "hey im getting this hardware... what do you think..." threads...

and heavliy overclocked... where people can get into the steppings and raw data and specs from the more knowlegable overclockers and ofcourse vmodded hardware... people PUSHING hardware... more of a OC LOG, than posting results is what id like to see... not just getting the run of the norm OC's...
an area the XS veternans could say what they have to say... show their results and not have them burried...

have it authroized access only... let everybody see and read... but deny posting to the unknown users...
If a lesser known user has input, the wonderful PM system works..

but the wonderful thing is the lesser knowns and noobies can see how we would like to see the posts... and convo's in threads to be...

i think that would really help things out... not just ignore the craze...
cause when .65nm A64 comes out... we could be going thru this again... and possibly when kentsfield is released... and this and that and all of that...

got to do something now before it just gets horrible

[M.Beier]

As in blood sport?:D
Totally :p:

[rpg711]

before, it was much more open, much more friendly

now, maybe due to the influx of novices people are much more inflammatory/less patient. There is much animosity found on this forum that just a year ago.

:(
qft
techpowerup discussed this in a thread
xtremesystems are becoming a bad forums... basically now its "have experience with a cascade or dont join" type of thing...

[dinos22]

qft
techpowerup discussed this in a thread
xtremesystems are becoming a bad forums... basically now its "have experience with a cascade or dont join" type of thing...
that's been the argument always.........people from forums such as techpowerup obviously are envious of this forum as that sort of retoric is childish and i've certainly never seen that from any of the senior members here :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono:

[rpg711]

that's been the argument always.........people from forums such as techpowerup obviously are envious of this forum as that sort of retoric is childish and i've certainly never seen that from any of the senior members here :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono:
well i can accept xtremesystems to mean "xtreme"
so anyways... now im thinking people should join techpowerup and when the people there "unnoobified" the guy, join here
and lol while u all are redisigning the site, put a "how much did u overclock" percentage thing based on cpu-z
dont let them join unless its higher than 50%
lmao

[M.Beier]

qft
techpowerup discussed this in a thread
xtremesystems are becoming a bad forums... basically now its "have experience with a cascade or dont join" type of thing...

Excuse me, how can you know that?
You signed up at july 2006 and then say "is becomming", you dont know what XS use to be, or if its different from now.

And nobody requires of another member, new member, to have any experience, what people want is new folks to read the stickies and search on forum before making a new thread... And then I, personally, appreciate a decent attitude, the one from the 3D-team section & overclocking..
Sometimes new members lack those to matters, and thats what some of us "whiners" complain about, its not a "your new, get lost" thing, not at all.
- and its for sure that not everybody agree with my oppinion, actually, its not a very populair one.. (Some weights very differntly in the matter of attitude/new members/higher popularity on the web.)

[masterofpuppets]

To me it seems XS is now primarily populated by two groups:
-The elitist, arrogant, "pr0 overclockers" who get all of their equipment "donated" to them by companies, use LN2/DICE or cascades given to them for free. Most of their results aren't derived from any real skill, mainly just because of their amazing cooling, and because the aforementioned companies handpick the chips they give away to make their products look better. They post screenshot after screenshot after screenshot, and post thread while the second group (which I will tell you more about soon) kisses their a$$ at every opportunity. They respond to their comments with small talk, yet not revealing any of their "pr0 overclocking secrets".

This doesn't apply to all "pr0 overclockers", many of them aren't arrogant and are pretty friendly people, but if you look around, you'll see many of them fit my harsh description.

Now the second group..
-The a$$kissing noobs, who only joined to get "inside information" on Conroe. These are the kind of users everyone is currently complaining about. They create a plethora of useless threads ranging from "yay my conroe finally shipped", "omgnoes my chip sux help me overclock it plz", and "lolz i wanna build a cascade i dunno how dey work but im gonna build one newaylolol", and many more. They suck upto the staff, XIP's, legends, and the "pr0 overclockers" expecting them to share their pr0 tips in return. Many of them use poor spelling and grammar, and many are in their early teens. They'll post misinformation, sometimes intentional, sometimes not.

Sorry if that sounded harsh or offended you, but that's my observation.

[sierra_bound]

Well, I'm not offended because I don't think I belong to either group. :D

Regarding the sharing of secrets, there's no rule here that says you have to tell people everything you know. If someone doesn't want to share all their secrets, I don't think that makes them a snob or a bad member. I might add that there's a wealth of information here already.

I generally don't ask for help. For me, almost everything is trial and error. Enduring BSOD's and instant reboots is part of the learning process. The people who want everything handed to them on a silver platter don't learn anything. And when something goes wrong they don't know what to do. I believe a good teacher guides, that is, points someone in the right direction. A good student is generally someone with an open mind. If someone asks me a question, I will usually try to answer it the best I can. But I draw the line when someone wants me to do all the work for them.

[nn_step]

a good student is one who wants to learn. a good teacher is one that guides the student to answers but doesn't do it for them.

[M.Beier]

Well, Im a poor student then. When Im tweakin' I dont hessitate listing what I've used so far, and if there's somethin' I've forgotten...

But I guess Im in the first group, didnt think of myself as arrogant though... - And havnt got sponsed the hardware yet, only a few couple of things, but thats changed now, only issue is, time, as being a student on a university as well... (takin' a degree in buissness/economics)
But also the second group, cause I know just who to ask if I need any help, and yes, some happens to be XIP/XL, others dont... - I seeked Coolaler for consul before he signed up at XS...

[bullet2urbrain]

I think the 2 group thing is pretty accurate but something needs to be added,

Our FANTASTIC and Top Notch Distributed Computing teams.

There are people in those forums ive never seen post anywhere else. there are people whos first posts are "Hi i wanted to join your ***** Team "

either way XS dynamic has (in my tenure) always been the way it is now. nothing has really changed

[ozzimark]

To me it seems XS is now primarily populated by two groups:
-The elitist, arrogant, "pr0 overclockers" who get all of their equipment "donated" to them by companies, use LN2/DICE or cascades given to them for free. Most of their results aren't derived from any real skill, mainly just because of their amazing cooling, and because the aforementioned companies handpick the chips they give away to make their products look better. They post screenshot after screenshot after screenshot, and post thread while the second group (which I will tell you more about soon) kisses their a$$ at every opportunity. They respond to their comments with small talk, yet not revealing any of their "pr0 overclocking secrets".
some are like that, but how did they get recognized enough in the first place to get the free stuff? with skill usually :D

[itznfb]

some are like that, but how did they get recognized enough in the first place to get the free stuff? with skill usually :D

that was going to be my point. these people that get top notch handpicked hardware get it because they have proven that they DO in fact have the skills to push the "cherry picked" hardware to its absoulte limit. these guys have paid their dues in the OC community and the only reason to cry about it and call them arrogant is due to the fact that you're jealous.

[masterofpuppets]

that was going to be my point. these people that get top notch handpicked hardware get it because they have proven that they DO in fact have the skills to push the "cherry picked" hardware to its absoulte limit. these guys have paid their dues in the OC community and the only reason to cry about it and call them arrogant is due to the fact that you're jealous.
:stick: I'm not crying about it. Of course I'm jealous (who wouldn't be jealous about getting free, handpicked hardware?), but in no way am I crying about it. Only reason you wouldn't think of them as arrogant is if you were trying to suck up to them. Some of them don't even reply to their a$$ kissers with real words, just more screenshots. They care about being "teh uber pr0 top overclock0r on teh 0rB!" and that's it. Some of them don't give a crap about the community. Of course as I've said, many pro benchers aren't like this at all, I can name MANY that are really nice people.

EDIT: And where's the skill in pushing "cherry picked" hardware? There'd be far more skill involved trying to overclock the lesser steppings that need more tweaking to get anywhere.

[STEvil]

I'd actually bet they dont reply because people think they get free handpicked hardware and then make threads like this calling each other fan boys or jealous and knocking their work.

I am not saying that some do not recieve hardware, but by and large when they do you know about it.

[ozzimark]

Some of them don't even reply to their a$$ kissers with real words, just more screenshots. They care about being "teh uber pr0 top overclock0r on teh 0rB!" and that's it. Some of them don't give a crap about the community. Of course as I've said, many pro benchers aren't like this at all, I can name MANY that are really nice people.
perhaps they figure that the screenshots will help some people with the timings needed to come close to similar speeds? ;)

[masterofpuppets]

perhaps they figure that the screenshots will help some people with the timings needed to come close to similar speeds? ;)
Good point ;) There are indeed some very helpful people around here when it comes to that, very helpful. But for the most part alot of people are just showing off ;)

[dinos22]

i think XS is changing for better to be honest

gone are the days of dlckheads showing up with ;) wink smilies every second post...........definately a good thing........most OCers today are too happy to oblidge to anwer questions and don't ignore people's posts or PMs.........i get lots of PMs from people not confident to start a new thread or make a post in another thread or whatever reason....i've never avoided any of those PMs....it doesn't take long to help steer people in the right direction i reckon

[drtitanium0]

no worries. Once this Conroe buzz finishes, then it'll settle down. The asses will be chased off and the noobs will be taught. Balance will be restored Yes the balance of the force will soon be restored as soon as we defeat noobvader!

[itznfb]

:stick: I'm not crying about it. Of course I'm jealous (who wouldn't be jealous about getting free, handpicked hardware?), but in no way am I crying about it. Only reason you wouldn't think of them as arrogant is if you were trying to suck up to them. Some of them don't even reply to their a$$ kissers with real words, just more screenshots.

EDIT: And where's the skill in pushing "cherry picked" hardware? There'd be far more skill involved trying to overclock the lesser steppings that need more tweaking to get anywhere.

i'm not jealous. i'm generally proud of the acheivement i've accomplished with what i have. i've asked a lot of questions in my years here, a lot of them were stupid questions. and many times these "arrogant" OCers were the ones to respond and help me out. many times offering help via AIM 1 on 1. not once have i run into one of them that treated me any different.

where's the skill in overclocking cherry picked hardware? well.. where's the skill in overclocking any hardware? saying there is no skill in overclocking cherry picked hardware is just an ignorant statement.

as for XS overall dynamic. it is changing for the better. i never thought it was bad... but there is always room for improvement, and it is definatly improving.

[masterofpuppets]

i'm not jealous. i'm generally proud of the acheivement i've accomplished with what i have. i've asked a lot of questions in my years here, a lot of them were stupid questions. and many times these "arrogant" OCers were the ones to respond and help me out. many times offering help via AIM 1 on 1. not once have i run into one of them that treated me any different.

where's the skill in overclocking cherry picked hardware? well.. where's the skill in overclocking any hardware? saying there is no skill in overclocking cherry picked hardware is just an ignorant statement.

as for XS overall dynamic. it is changing for the better. i never thought it was bad... but there is always room for improvement, and it is definatly improving.
Tell me what is ignorant about it then? Overclocking cherry picked hardware makes it easier to attain better results. And since most of this hardware isn't even picked by them. It's pretty much like giving somebody a babies toy, compared to giving them a more "challenging" toy.

[itznfb]

because it doesn't matter if the hardware is cherry picked or not. obviously when intel released an ES chip that is "cherry picked" they want it to get good results to impress the community. so obviously they'll give it to someone who is going to produce the best results. from what you're saying, if you had all the same equipment coolaler had, and all the same equipment k|ngp|n had, you could produce the exact same or better results in coolalers SPi and k|ngp|n's 3d scores?

[masterofpuppets]

No way, I'm too impatient. But to be a true "pro" is to have mastered it. A real pro is someone who has the knowledge to design their own mods and their own unique tricks. But overclocking general requires patience, not neccessarily skill if you have access to good cooling.

[zakelwe]

Overclocking cherry picked hardware makes it easier to attain better results.

You obviously haven't been watching K|ngp|n and Shamino trying to get good results with the nvidia 590 chipset for Intel recently and struggling with the FSB limit. Those were "cherrypicked" for them by the manufacturer and yet Vince still went and got far better results unofficially with an Intel 975 motherboard he bought himself.

That just leaves the memory and here I would agree with you., RAM manufacturers will always cherrypick the review samples for both overclockers and web journalists in my opinion. At last the performance RAM people as the overclock is all that matters,

Regards

Andy

[M.Beier]

masterofpuppets, well...
I dont mod any HW myself, but gets everythin' modded by a friend... Basicly, that will make me a rookie, permanently?

Overclocking isnt everything... Tweakin' is also of great importance when makin' a result..
A guy from Denmark just sent me a PM today "How did you do it?" Due me getting 13:17 sec SPI 32M with less then 3700mhz, while he gets 15:40 with 3870mhz... - He's mems nowhere near as fast as mine, but thats not what makes the difference..

My point being... Sure, its not about skills, or is it? - One can gain experience and receive info as far as tweakin' goes, but also, when taking a education, one studies and learn, will one have skills or just to much time afterwards if one gets a good job afterwards?

[masterofpuppets]

masterofpuppets, well...
I dont mod any HW myself, but gets everythin' modded by a friend... Basicly, that will make me a rookie, permanently?

Overclocking isnt everything... Tweakin' is also of great importance when makin' a result..
A guy from Denmark just sent me a PM today "How did you do it?" Due me getting 13:17 sec SPI 32M with less then 3700mhz, while he gets 15:40 with 3870mhz... - He's mems nowhere near as fast as mine, but thats not what makes the difference..

My point being... Sure, its not about skills, or is it? - One can gain experience and receive info as far as tweakin' goes, but also, when taking a education, one studies and learn, will one have skills or just to much time afterwards if one gets a good job afterwards?
There aren't any "set guidelines" to label a user a noob, rookie, pro, etc, I'm just saying all of these so-called "pr0" overclockers are getting it easy while not really putting any passion into it. It's just the pr0 overclocker stereotype, you get what I mean?

EDIT: Ok I'm wrong, I just realized my description fits "pr0 bencher" alot better :p:

[itznfb]

I'm just saying all of these so-called "pr0" overclockers are getting it easy while not really putting any passion into it. It's just the pr0 overclocker stereotype, you get what I mean?

this is so ridiculous. i don't know if you say these things to just start a debate or what, but those statement are so stupid. how do you think they became so well known? because they have no passion for it? how do they continually break world records? because they don't care and they have no skill? c'mon, get real.

[trance565]

:eek: people actually agree with me that prime stability isn't the say all to overclocking?!
yep, when i first joined the forum, back when i got my winnie, i couldnt get it prime stable, even at stock clocks and was like zomgwtfbbq, then i realised, i could do ANYTHING on my computer, at the clocks, except prime failed, so i just figured, if i can do everything i need/want to do except prime, screw it, its a good oc!

[masterofpuppets]

this is so ridiculous. i don't know if you say these things to just start a debate or what, but those statement are so stupid. how do you think they became so well known? because they have no passion for it? how do they continually break world records? because they don't care and they have no skill? c'mon, get real.
:rolleyes: So you don't think giving a "pr0" overclocker hardware is like giving a baby a toy? All "pr0 overclocking" seems to be these days is giving a total novice high end cooling and handpicked hardware and letting them play with it.

EDIT: Ok novice is unfair because overclocking on that level does require a bit of experience, not neccessarily skill..

[itznfb]

where do you see any "novice" at the top of any results list?

[masterofpuppets]

where do you see any "novice" at the top of any results list?
You won't accept defeat will you? Look in the 3D section, alot of these top "professional" benchers are just persistant, patient, and money-loaded (or they are so pr0 they get hardware donated from companies) novices with experience ;x Anyway that's not even the problem, they aren't really bothering me in the slightest, you just feel the need to question me. The problem is the influx of noobs -_-

[itznfb]

i won't accept defeat? you've provided no relevant information to support anything you've said. and i don't see an "influx of noobs" as a bad thing. community growth is a good thing. the only point where it becomes an issue is when these "noobs" are allowed to run unchecked through the forums. and i think the mods are doing a pretty good job at keeping things under control, and recently they have been keeping things very well organized.

[masterofpuppets]

i won't accept defeat? you've provided no relevant information to support anything you've said. and i don't see an "influx of noobs" as a bad thing. community growth is a good thing. the only point where it becomes an issue is when these "noobs" are allowed to run unchecked through the forums. and i think the mods are doing a pretty good job at keeping things under control, and recently they have been keeping things very well organized.
An influx of n00bs is a bad thing, an influx of new members isn't neccessarily a bad thing. :rolleyes:

[itznfb]

just because we are xtremesystems doesn't mean we are going to get a whole bunch of experienced new members. people come here to learn.

[afireinside]

where do you see any "novice" at the top of any results list?

One person at the "top" stands out, don't want to name names here, but everyone else I've talked to agrees. But mop is overdoing the "pr0" thing where people with no skill get handed hardware.

[trance565]

just because we are xtremesystems doesn't mean we are going to get a whole bunch of experienced new members. people come here to learn.
qft, noobs are good, but when they come in to the forums in flocks, like recently, i can see how it's annoying, but never a bad thing

[specofdust]

I've got to agree with certain posts in this thread. There are too many bad noobs here. I know everyone starts out a noob, I wouldn't even say I myself are that far away from being one in many respects. However XS isn't, I don't think, a place where total noobs should be learning. For me XS has always been the forum where I do my best to post relevent questions of a higher quality than is acceptable at most forums. This place is teeming with people who together, have knowledge that eclipses any other forum I've ever found. It might sound ridiculous, but these people shouldn't be annoyed with constant repetition of very simple questions by noobs, because that leads to a degeneration of the forum. I came to XS originally because it was a forum where there are many threads with lots of information in them; although you have to read lots to find your answer there's a good deal of information that you just can't find elsewhere. I guess the volume of information makes this an attractive place to noobs who think they should just ask every question they have, instead of reading. Reading 300 page threads for 2 posts of information can be a hassle. But better the information be there at all, then so many noobs post stupid questions that have already been answered that all the regulars who know their stuff leave.

Hope I havn't rambled too much there. This place is great, and I hope it stays great.

[SLi_dog]

When I first came here back in 2005 I posted a thread on an overclocking result and got stomped on. Admittedly I was a n00b, (and still am) but it sure did leave a bad first impression. It seems little has changed since then and it's not the n00bs that have the attitude problem.
Agreed that XS is definately the best source for info on hardware bar none but just because you have experience and can bang out some insane benchmarks doesn't give you the right to act like an arsehole. If anything imho you should be more humble.

XtremeSystems seems to be more about XtremeEgos which is sad cause it's a great place with top info. :)

Flame away, just my two cents.

[specofdust]

Think of it this way though, if you get a whole bunch of university lecturers from good universities and tell them they have to teach three year olds, how long are they going to stay working for you? Teaching has to be satisfying not just to the student(who should be in a position to make the most of their teacher) but for the teacher too. That perhaps sounds a little abstract, but I really think it applies here.

[dinos22]

When I first came here back in 2005 I posted a thread on an overclocking result and got stomped on. Admittedly I was a n00b, (and still am) but it sure did leave a bad first impression. It seems little has changed since then and it's not the n00bs that have the attitude problem.
Agreed that XS is definately the best source for info on hardware bar none but just because you have experience and can bang out some insane benchmarks doesn't give you the right to act like an arsehole. If anything imho you should be more humble.

XtremeSystems seems to be more about XtremeEgos which is sad cause it's a great place with top info. :)

Flame away, just my two cents.

lol got a link James :D heh


i think Conroe fever has now died down a little and we don't have stupid threads popping out all over the place......well in most part :)

[GMX]

...they seem to act like it's just another hardware forum. It's lost a lot of the "xtreme" but it's still by far the best OC forum and resource on the net :toast:

Right on... I don't know if it's still "the forum to be a part of" anymore though.

Mods were a lot more strict back then too. I remember when I joined I think I got a warning for saying how "crappy" the GA-7N400 Pro 2 was.


The idea of a n00b section is excellent. A place for people to ask questions without being flamed.
Maybe some of the senior guys take some time with it and fill it with links like:
"So you just got your conroe: read these 75 threads and learn."
I think that would help everyone and maybe drop the stress level on the whole forum a bit..

Although it is a good idea I guess it tarnishes XS's image of professionalism. But there is just a "Computer Related Discussion" subforum anyway.


itznfb;1720450']:eek: people actually agree with me that prime stability isn't the say all to overclocking?!

I see the same trend. It's XS. Exceeding the limits is normal. Why can;t people accept that? If people can't(and they feel the need to express it so blatantly) they don't belong here.



Havnt seen that "all benchmarkings is BS" yet, luckily, would hmm... Piss me off 2tm ;)


Well remember with Conroe's Super pi 1M results. People shouted out FAKE FAKE FAKE!!!!!! They didn't even doubt it, they had the type of response that suggested they were 110% correct and certain.




Now the second group..
-The a$$kissing noobs, who only joined to get "inside information" on Conroe. These are the kind of users everyone is currently complaining about. They create a plethora of useless threads ranging from "yay my conroe finally shipped", "omgnoes my chip sux help me overclock it plz", and "lolz i wanna build a cascade i dunno how dey work but im gonna build one newaylolol", and many more. They suck upto the staff, XIP's, legends, and the "pr0 overclockers" expecting them to share their pr0 tips in return. Many of them use poor spelling and grammar, and many are in their early teens. They'll post misinformation, sometimes intentional, sometimes not.

Agree on that. Maybe next time someone posts something ridiculously stupid and unworthy on this forum, should send them that quote in a PM!

[sacha35]

Just a suggestion but perhaps there could be a section just for novices to post questions until they have enough experience or posts, as I don’t think we should be putting all novices down and putting them all in the same catergree as each other, so do have valid points and question, come on guys we were all novices at one time and need that help so I think as said it would be a nice idea to have a section on the forum for novices to request info and when they have the relevant amount of posts or knowledge then they could become a more senior member.

Just my thoughts I don’t know what you guys think of this.

[AzraelDarkangel]

Just a suggestion but perhaps there could be a section just for novices to post questions until they have enough experience or posts, as I don’t think we should be putting all novices down and putting them all in the same catergree as each other, so do have valid points and question, come on guys we were all novices at one time and need that help so I think as said it would be a nice idea to have a section on the forum for novices to request info and when they have the relevant amount of posts or knowledge then they could become a more senior member.

Just my thoughts I don’t know what you guys think of this.

Well, you could have a sort of an "Introduction to computer building and overclocking" section for new people. Might be a better place for new people to post for a short while so they don't annoy the regulars in the other sections and they could learn proper forum etiquette before posting in the rest of the forum.

It's easy to develop a bit of an elitist attitude and feel like your personal space is being invaded by new and unfamiliar people. Sort of like if you hang out at a small bar/pub or club with alot of regulars and suddenly alot of new people start coming in who don't know what's up and you suddenly feel like the equilibrium of the place (and hence yourself) is being upset by all these new people who don't know proper etiquette or respect and may act a bit immature. However things do change and new people will come sooner or later and we need to find a way to teach and incorporate the ones that seriously want to learn and tolerate and be patient with the other until they figure out if they are serious or not. I personally have a strong distaste for people who act like elitists and put other people down who are not as knowledgeable or may sometimes ask redundant or sometimes silly questions. We should be more mature than that and show a certain amount of humility. Otherwise you should start your own group or forum that's invite only if you don't want to deal with "noobs" (a term I don't care for and find somewhat condescending).

[Gray Mole]

As someone who spends a great deal of time trying to help out in the phase forum, I have to say that there have been a lot of new people around.

Bad thing? Who knows, depends how long they stay new.

I do think that some of the guys complaining about the 'noobs' have generated a great deal of the animosity. I realise that answering the same question a few times gets tired, but I suppose that in refrigeration I'm used to being thankful that people actually ask questions before getting hurt or poisoning the environment.

Xtremesystems is home to some of the most intelligent and creative people in the world. The 'upside' is that you've got a great deal of knowledge, experience, and ability. The 'downside' is the you've got all of the 'personality' that goes with it, and sometimes that's not so easy or pretty.

When it comes down to it, there's a lot of forum here, and room for a lot of people. If there's something here that annoys you, just stay out of it. If you don't want to see people post about something, don't read it and just ignore it. If it's actually against policy or dangerous, report it.

Flaming or irritating people isn't helping, and it's just going to create a larger divide between longstanding members and new people.

Just because you don't see the value in a topic doesn't mean that lots of other people won't. Let them have their fun too.

Cheers

Gray

[[XC] riptide]

The only main rules regarding etiquette should be fairly basic indeed. Don't post noob questions in Xtreme Overclocking section and keep noob questions to the relevant hardware sections and Q & A, Support.


And if you are posting a question, show the readers that some effort has been made to find the answers by yourself. Show what you found out, and such. And give thanks... basically be polite.

[[XC] MarioMaster]

why is this thread back, it should've stayed buried

[IFMU]

Wow. You know what is sad about this thread?
It shows how 'elite' you are over these horrid and ignorant 'noobs'. :rolleyes:

yea, sure, lets create a section for these guys who are 'new/noobs' and make it so they can only post there where none of you will ever go to just because youre sick of reading all these lamzorz posts.
Give me a fracking break ffs.

I could give a rats azz how ignorant someone may be, if they come here with an honest intention to learn, let them post. If they create a new thread asking some question and there is a thread right next to it that asks the same question, yea, bad move and obviously they arent really interested in learning.

Some people believe it or not do not know how vBulletin works. They dont know that you can search through the forums and maybe find what they are looking for. It took me alot of time on these things to figure out how they work and I know there is still more that I dont know about them and Ive been using this for nearly a decade.

Now if you want to see these 'noobs' get to be better forum members and learn, then why dont you step up and help them instead of flaming them?
If they create a thread or post in one asking a question and you know it has been answered before, take a minute, search for it. Then reply to them, tell them how you found the answer and give them a link to the search and a link to the answer.
Take the 20/30 seconds to help them and stop whining about it.

If you see things that are against the forums rules there is the 'Report this Post' button under each posters name. Staff will be alerted and will look into it and do what they feel is needed. I'm suprised this thread was allowed to stay open for this long.

As a final note.
This obviously is not directed to everyone, but to a few.
If you take offense to what I said here, then just maybe you are who I am talking about.
Think about it.

Dead Thread.