How does this look? WC for ~$450

[Istasi]

Hey guys,

Recently I've been looking a lot at WC, and after doing some (okay, a lot) of research, I think I've put together what would be the "ultimate" WC loop (lacking only dual pumps.)

Thermochill PA120.3 - $120 (http://www.dangerdenstore.com/product.php?productid=205&cat=76&page=1)
MP-05 SP Limited Edition (w/ delrin midplate) - $76 (http://www.petrastechshop.com/aqmpspliedun.html)
Laing DDC Ultra - $75 (http://www.dangerdenstore.com/product.php?productid=135&cat=23&page=1)
Alphacool Laing DDC Clear Acrylic Top - $30 (http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=201&products_id=4506&zenid=525e7a906bdab720ad730630666f0966)
Swiftech MCW60 w/ RAM Sinks - $60 (http://www.jab-tech.com/Swiftech-MCW60-VGA-cooler-pr-3252.html)
20ft. Masterkleer 7/16" ID 5/8" OD - $6 (http://www.mcmaster.com/)
PTFE Thread Tape - $3 (http://www.petrastechshop.com/ptthta1wi50r.html)
Swiftech MCRES-Micro - $15 (http://www.petrastechshop.com/swmchire.html)
3x Yate Loon D12SL-12 (Sleeved) - $27 (http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=4041)
2x AquaXtreme G3/8 BSPP HiFlow Barb - $4.50 (http://www.cooltechnica.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Category_Code=Barb_Fitting&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=AQX-HIFLO-G38-12)
10x Stainless Steel Wormdrive Clamps - $10 (http://www.petrastechshop.com/ststwohocl.html)
Petra's "Gel Stuff" - $4 (http://www.petrastechshop.com/pegviabbl.html)
Swiftech Smartcoils - $3 (http://www.petrastechshop.com/40swsm625f5o.html)
Evercool VC-RE - $8 (http://www.jab-tech.com/product.php?productid=2291)
Pentosin G11 - $3 (http://www.petrastechshop.com/peg11coadb.html)

Total - ~$450 (less with 20% DD discount)

However, if I were to get these parts, the issue of where to mount them arises. The easiest solution would be to grab a new case, but the only one that can really accomodate this kind of system easily would be a U2-UFO, which is a bit out of my price range at the moment. The second option would be to hack up the top of my P180. The third would be making an external box for the rad/pump/res and just have tubing going into the case for the CPU/GPU blocks.

I've illustrated how I could possibly arrange the parts inside the P180. Pardon the poor quality, I'm on my mom's laptop at the moment with no PS.

Option #1 - Mod P180
http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/8190/wc1ls4.jpg
For this plan, I could cut 2x 120mm holes in the top of my case next to the 120mm blowhole already there, and mount the rad and shroud on top, while the fans would be mounted inside the case, pulling fresh air through the rad. Of course I would use neoprene gaskets for an airtight seal.

Option #2 - External Box
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/899/wc2wo5.jpg
I would probably construct this box out of wood, seeing as wood slightly deadens noise and my dad has plenty of woodworking tools to use. The rad would be mounted to the side of the box, fans still sucking air through. I would mount the pump behind the fans so that it's extra heat would be quickly dissipated. I would also probably mount some mesh on the opposite wall of the box as the fans, so that the air drawn in has some place to go.

Option #3 - Radbox
Perhaps the simplest option is mounting the rad with a radbox to the back of the case. However, I'm not even sure if Radboxes are compatible with Thermochill's. Anyone know?

Please offer any and all critiques: on my part selections, on my proposed layouts, or on my proposed plans for implementing the parts into my case.

[nikhsub1]

You dont need the shroud or the threadtape... all barbs are parallel and seal with o-rings... its a waste. Also, the neoprene gaskets are supposed to come with the PA...

[Istasi]

You dont need the shroud or the threadtape... all barbs are parallel and seal with o-rings... its a waste. Also, the neoprene gaskets are supposed to come with the PA...

Why no shroud? Also, how many gaskets come with the PA? I'd need 2 if I didn't get the shroud, one for Rad -> Case and one for Case -> Fans

[m0da]

try to have the res as the highest point in the loop.

[nikhsub1]

Why no shroud? Also, how many gaskets come with the PA? I'd need 2 if I didn't get the shroud, one for Rad -> Case and one for Case -> Fans
A shroud with the PA is of very minimal gain... if you are going to run your fans at crazy low volts, then it can help, but generally not needed. I think it is supposed to come with 2 gaskets.

[sdkevin]

correction: each radiator comes with one gasket! thread tape only needed for poly. barbs, if you have nickel plated barbs (Cooltechnica 3/8BSPP Barb) then you don't need that

[Istasi]

A shroud with the PA is of very minimal gain... if you are going to run your fans at crazy low volts, then it can help, but generally not needed. I think it is supposed to come with 2 gaskets.

Well the goal here would be the maximum performance/noise ratio, so I would generally be running my Yates @ 5-7v.

Anyways, another option that I completely forgot up until a few minutes ago was a radbox. This would seem to be the simplest option, with only minor modding of the case. However, are radboxes even compatible with PA's?

EDIT: About the PTFE tape, as far as I know the MCW60 and MCRES-Micro's barbs are plastic. Would it be worth it to buy some DD HiFlow's or one of their equivalents to replace them?

[sdkevin]

Yes you can mount any pc radiators to Radbox, I don't like to have plastic barbs, it makes me very worried so if you can replace nickel plated bards then please do so and save yourself some trouble

[Istasi]

Yes you can mount any pc radiators to Radbox, I don't like to have plastic barbs, it makes me very worried so if you can replace nickel plated bards then please do so and save yourself some trouble

Well I threw some DD High Flow fittings on the list in the first post, with the total cost now pushing $480, but with the DD parts 20% off, that's around $440. I think I'll keep the PTFE tape just in case.

[virtualrain1]

Sounds like a great kit!

Last I was there, I think you can save a few bucks buying the Yate Loons from Jab-tech.

Also, you may be already all over this, but watch your fitting selection... it seems you have a variety of different threads in this kit... Fortunately, I think all of your stuff comes with appropriate fittings. Note that the PA uses G3/8 BSPT (EDIT: no, its BSPP - the Dangerden site is wrong), the Swiftech blocks use 1/4 NPT, the AquaXtreme uses 9/16-18, and the pump has G1/4 BSPP. Note that the last letter P/T in the thread specs defines whether the threads are parallel or tapered. I wouldn't mix/match. So having said all this, what are the G3/8 BSPP fittings for (EDIT: the PA's come with fittings if you buy from Dangerden)?

As for the plastic fittings on the Swiftech stuff... a) they are top quality, I don't think you would be better off with metal at all... b) they fit so tightly with the 7/16" masterkleer that you won't need hose clamps and you really can't even pull the tubing off without damaging the block or tubing... once it's on there, it's on there damn good, whereas with metal fittings, I've found the tubing will easily come off - requiring clamps. c) I don't think you will find metal fittings that will easily replace them anyway (NPT threads)... just use the ones provided IMHO.

[virtualrain1]

One other thing, I assume you've seen this setup with the rad inside the top?

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=109822

That seems like the way to go IMHO... Super clean!
You may be able to go one step farther and even have the fans inside as well (not sure about the space up there).

I don't think a rad box with your rad on the back will allow any of your cables to connect to cards in the slots (i.e. DVI cable, etc.).

[septim]

the PA's use g3/8 BSPP or parallel thread not tapered, so no need taflon/ptfe here, best clean said PA if you used the nylon with taflon, i currently saw some strands of taflon floating in my loop...

as for the radbox, supposedly you could use some more standoffs if said radbox & rad mounting are too close to your I/O ports... my PA rad are currently held by several 4inch standoffs bought at mcmaster...

EDIT: About the PTFE tape, as far as I know the MCW60 and MCRES-Micro's barbs are plastic. Would it be worth it to buy some DD HiFlow's or one of their equivalents to replace them?

also note that the mcres-micro and that dd g1/4 hiflow fittings are a nice match/ no taflon needed...

[nealh]

why the reservoir. just use a T-Line

[Aldy402]

You dont need the shroud or the threadtape... all barbs are parallel and seal with o-rings... its a waste. Also, the neoprene gaskets are supposed to come with the PA...

shroud and gaskets do come with the retail PA, using 2 shourds is unneccesary as it adds no performance and just wastes more space.

using threadtape, while not needed, wouldnt hurt for extra precauction but he's right the o-ring with a good quality barb should be sufficient

[virtualrain1]

the PA's use g3/8 BSPP or parallel thread not tapered...

My bad.

DangerDen should fix the specs on their site!
http://www.dangerdenstore.com/product.php?productid=205&cat=76&page=1

Thermochill has it right (of course)...
http://www.thermochill.com/pa1203.php

At any rate, it looks like DangerDen provides barbs with the rad.

[ghent915]

Teflon tape is generally a bad thing. Why? If the threads are not wrapped PERFECTLY, some will wind up in your loop. This will float around, and eventually clog jets, and impede performance.

I'd avoid the stuff like the plauge.
-Ghent

[andersson.j]

Teflon tape is generally a bad thing. Why? If the threads are not wrapped PERFECTLY, some will wind up in your loop. This will float around, and eventually clog jets, and impede performance.

I'd avoid the stuff like the plauge.
-Ghent
That's why you should use a filter the first couple of days. :stick:

[dnottis]

The gasket is crap anyways. It was blocking one of my fans on the PA120.2 and the other one was hitting it and making a noise. I pulled it off. No need for the shroud or the gasket imo.

[Istasi]

Sounds like a great kit!

Last I was there, I think you can save a few bucks buying the Yate Loons from Jab-tech.

Also, you may be already all over this, but watch your fitting selection... it seems you have a variety of different threads in this kit... Fortunately, I think all of your stuff comes with appropriate fittings. Note that the PA uses G3/8 BSPT (EDIT: no, its BSPP - the Dangerden site is wrong), the Swiftech blocks use 1/4 NPT, the AquaXtreme uses 9/16-18, and the pump has G1/4 BSPP. Note that the last letter P/T in the thread specs defines whether the threads are parallel or tapered. I wouldn't mix/match. So having said all this, what are the G3/8 BSPP fittings for (EDIT: the PA's come with fittings if you buy from Dangerden)?

As for the plastic fittings on the Swiftech stuff... a) they are top quality, I don't think you would be better off with metal at all... b) they fit so tightly with the 7/16" masterkleer that you won't need hose clamps and you really can't even pull the tubing off without damaging the block or tubing... once it's on there, it's on there damn good, whereas with metal fittings, I've found the tubing will easily come off - requiring clamps. c) I don't think you will find metal fittings that will easily replace them anyway (NPT threads)... just use the ones provided IMHO.

I would buy the Yate's from Jab-Tech or Petra's, but Perf-PC's sleeves all their cables and due to the fact that I currently lack the equipment necessary to sleeve cables, that's definitely a deciding factor.

As for the barbs, thanks for all the info. Sounds like I don't need to buy any extra barbs which saves me a few bucks, thanks!

One other thing, I assume you've seen this setup with the rad inside the top?

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=109822

That seems like the way to go IMHO... Super clean!
You may be able to go one step farther and even have the fans inside as well (not sure about the space up there).

I don't think a rad box with your rad on the back will allow any of your cables to connect to cards in the slots (i.e. DVI cable, etc.).

I'd love to be able to do that, but there are a few issues. Due to fact I'm looking for performance/noise ratio, either I'd mount the rad on top and fans inside so they could pull fresh air through, or if I was lucky I'd be able to mount both inside. However, I think that due to the PA's thickness + 120mm fans, I would lose 3 out of the 4 drive bays. Right now I use two, and I might end up using 3 (optical drive, 1-2 fan controllers.) However, I will take it into consideration.

At any rate, it looks like DangerDen provides barbs with the rad.

Do they provide metal barbs? I think that those translucent poly barbs that typically come with PA's look incredibly cheap, and would be willing to spend the few extra bucks for nickel-plated barbs.

why the reservoir. just use a T-Line

Ease of filling/bleeding.

Teflon tape is generally a bad thing. Why? If the threads are not wrapped PERFECTLY, some will wind up in your loop. This will float around, and eventually clog jets, and impede performance.

I'd avoid the stuff like the plauge.
-Ghent

Anyone else have comments on this?

[virtualrain1]

My opinion on the Teflon tape is that it's really not required... all the fittings should have rubber o-rings and should make a perfectly good seal without it. However, if you want to use it, go ahead!... wrapping teflon tape on threads is not rocket science and you can always trim any excess off with an exacto knife. Some people are just too concerned about the minutest details.

You will have to leak test no matter what you do.

[Istasi]

My opinion on the Teflon tape is that it's really not required... all the fittings should have rubber o-rings and should make a perfectly good seal without it. However, if you want to use it, go ahead!... wrapping teflon tape on threads is not rocket science and you can always trim any excess off with an exacto knife. Some people are just too concerned about the minutest details.

You will have to leak test no matter what you do.

That's what I figured, and it's only $3 so it's not really making a difference in my budget, so I just said 'what the hell.'

[fhpchris]

I think you can also get Liquid teflon that does the same thing as the tape, but does not break off and clog parts of the system :)

[SiGfever]

You will have a great setup from that list. I prefer the individual rubber fan gaskets my self. I am leak testing my new DDC Ultra with the Alphacool modded top as I type. Man this little pump kicks arse. :D

[Istasi]

I think you can also get Liquid teflon that does the same thing as the tape, but does not break off and clog parts of the system :)

Do you have a link to anywhere that might sell this online?

[septim]

polybarbs with the PA are quite cheap, but they work well... anyway if you want the metal barbs for the PA, buy some from cooltechnica there g3/8 bspp type...

and correct on that taflon tape generally not needed for fittings with o-rings
just don't over tighten said fitting, and you're safe...

sig, just make sure you keep an eye on that ddc, when first powering up sometimes a tap tap is needed... i think i may have fried one of my gpu...

[Istasi]

polybarbs with the PA are quite cheap, but they work well... anyway if you want the metal barbs for the PA, buy some from cooltechnica there g3/8 bspp type...

and correct on that taflon tape generally not needed for fittings with o-rings
just don't over tighten said fitting, and you're safe...

sig, just make sure you keep an eye on that ddc, when first powering up sometimes a tap tap is needed... i think i may have fried one of my gpu...

Yeah, I've got those barbs on my list in the first post.

About the DDC, are they really unreliable like that sometimes?