X2 3800 @ 2.6ghz VS. E6600 @ 2.4ghz

[MustardTheoRy]

Well guys my E6600 was UPS'd to me today. Ran some benchies on both boxes with fresh installs on both..

X2 3800 @ 2.6 Ghz OCed
thermalright XP-90
corsair xms 3500 LLPRO 2 gigs
DFI nf4 UT Lanparty
Seagate cuda 7200.8 250 Gb SATA

Vs

E6600 @ 2.4 Ghz Stock
ninja scythe mine w/ 120mm scythe fan
G.Skill 2gbhz DDR800
Asus P5WDH
WD Caviar SE 250 Gb SATA


Honestly they feel the same when using XP. Its hard to tell the diff between a X2 3800 and a 805d @ 4.0Ghz or a E66 @ 2.4 Ghz Other than Xp booting quicker on a X2 3800.. =P
Though when it comes to benchmarks the E66 performs better in mips but not mflops compared to the the X2 3800
My PC 3500 has more bandwith and tighter timmings than the G.skill GBHZ
Also Sciencemark 2 is held by the X2 3800; ciperbench , Mol dyn and Primordia
As you know Super pi is calculated faster on the Core 2
Havent had a chance to compare gaming between E66 but it looks like much higher FPS then the 805d I was running @ 4ghz which was terrible compared to the X23800 so looks close

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/4065/x2380026ghzhc5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/9634/e660024ghznj8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

This is just a peliminary run. I'll update later

[arisythila]

Results look promising.. I should buy one.

~Mike

[.sentinel]

This is not 3 year old technology. Its technology from this year.

[arisythila]

When do we get to see more benchmarks? I want to see conroe ruin that 3800+ wOOt!

~Mike

[amrgb]

I'm sorry arisythila, but I'm with .sentinel. This is a comparison between the alternatives you have at this point in time.

And there is still one comparison of particular interest to me that I've never found. How does C2D fare in folding@home?

MustardTheoRy, is it possible to give it a try on F@H?

[Nedjo]

That is S939 X2 3800+!!

[arisythila]

Yeah. I cant wait to see the results.

~Mike

[vitaminc]

This is not 3 year old technology. Its technology from this year.

Hmmm. I wouldn't call X2 3800 a 3 year old technology. It's only a little bit over one year old.

Or you could claim the same thing when K8L is out next year as a 4 year old technology since it uses pretty much the same K8 core (with slight tweaks) with fabrics around it to make it the better quad core implementation vs. Kentsfield.

[K.I.T.T.]

That is S939 X2 3800+!!
you think AM2 will be much faster? :stick:

[arisythila]

AM2's seem to clock a bit better than 939. Besides that clock for clock should be pretty much the same.

@VitC

K8L is a K8 core? with slight tweaks? K8L should suck then. (Sarcasm) damn AMD (/Sarcasm)

~Mike

[vaio]

Given current pricing the 3800+ shapes up pretty well........half the price of the Conroe

[arisythila]

dude! 3800 = crap compared to a conroe. Like Whao..

[Raybo]

dude! 3800 = crap compared to a conroe. Like Whao..

Really depends on how you look at it.

:hm:

[arisythila]

Im being Facious.

~Mike

[dnottis]

dude! 3800 = crap compared to a conroe. Like Whao..


A 3800 is $150, they overclock to 2.8 or 2.9 Ghz. Use existing motherboard and memory. Sure Conroe is new and faster clock for clock. But you cannot tell me it's worth $200+ for the chip, $400+ for 2GB of decent DDR2 and $250+ for a nice motherboard.

Like whoa - 5 fps gain for high res gaming (since we all know the GPU is still the bottleneck at high res) and 10 seconds faster in SuperPI (I'm sure everyone plays alot of multiplayer SuperPI) for $700 - now thats just friggin' stupid.

[milkcafe]

X2 4200+ @2.2G equal the E6300 in some benchmarks
E6300 has only 2MB cache

and Im pretty sure that X2 3800+ @2.6G cant compete against E6600 in any benchmarks.

[vitaminc]

@VitC

K8L is a K8 core? with slight tweaks? K8L should suck then. (Sarcasm) damn AMD (/Sarcasm)

~Mike

Yes, but it won't suck. It doesnt suck now, and it won't suck few years after. The core itself should be at least competitive in terms of IPC after they added more width to the IF stage and increase bit depth of SEE units from 64 to 128.
The fabrics are another story. K8L should be as good as the current Conroes if not better, but no one has any idea about K8L vs. 45nm Conroe.

Nothing breakthrough in terms of architecture design before K10, as confirmed by AMD with their "evolution" comment.

A 3800 is $150, they overclock to 2.8 or 2.9 Ghz. Use existing motherboard and memory. Sure Conroe is new and faster clock for clock. But you cannot tell me it's worth $200+ for the chip, $400+ for 2GB of decent DDR2 and $250+ for a nice motherboard.

Like whoa - 5 fps gain for high res gaming (since we all know the GPU is still the bottleneck at high res) and 10 seconds faster in SuperPI (I'm sure everyone plays alot of multiplayer SuperPI) for $700 - now thats just friggin' stupid.

Don't know where you shop, but 2GB of very overclocking friendly DDR2 costs around $200-$250. And you are going to change to DDR2 even if you are staying in the AMD camp anyway.

Now if you look at the situation with AM2. $150 for CPU, $250 for memory, and $250 for motherboard. $650 for no performance increase vs. $700 for a decent performance gap. Hmmmm. If switching to Conroe is friggin' stupid, than switching to AM2 would be extremely retarded. :o

[Ron 61]

I have nice 3800 X2 toledo that I picked up from the egg last week and I like it a lot, but it takes someone who is dilusional to think that a oc'ed 3800 X2 can compete head to head with any oc'ed conroe... Well either dilusional or extremely retarded.

[dnottis]

Now if you look at the situation with AM2. $150 for CPU, $250 for memory, and $250 for motherboard. $650 for no performance increase vs. $700 for a decent performance gap. Hmmmm. If switching to Conroe is friggin' stupid, than switching to AM2 would be extremely retarded. :o

AM2 is a retarded upgrade too. AM2 was nothing more than AMD switching to high latency DDR 2 which has no performance increase over well tweaked DDR 1.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145033
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820146563

I dont consider $200 Corsair Value Select decent memory... sorry.

[dnottis]

I have nice 3800 X2 toledo that I picked up from the egg last week and I like it a lot, but it takes someone who is dilusional to think that a oc'ed 3800 X2 can compete head to head with any oc'ed conroe... Well either dilusional or extremely retarded.

It's not worth the money to upgrade to a conroe. Compete in what SuperPI? lol

[dinos22]

why are you comparing stock E6600 and overclocked X2

overclock both CPUs to the max and compare them

it will be a lot different seeing 2.8Ghz X2 and 3.6GHz E6600

[amrgb]

Calm down guys.

Both dnotis, vitaminc and Ron 61 are right from some point of view.

For guys still on 939 and single cores an upgrade to an X2 cannot be beaten (that's what I did)

For guys starting from scratch, Conroe definitely better than AM2.

And an X2 cannot compete with a Conroe when overclocked to the max.

So guys, please, save on the retards and flames.

PS: dnotis, I would love to agree with your average overclock, but on air you're being optimistic. More like 2.7 (mine) or even 2.6. The guys with 2.6 or low don't showoff here (there's nothing to showoff :p: )

[Ron 61]

Super PI seems to be painful nowadays to people who used to put it in their sig.

[Absolute_0]

If switching to Conroe is friggin' stupid, than switching to AM2 would be extremely retarded. :o

Yeah obviously Dean, that logic doesn't apply to everyone. This is XS, and we like new stuff, and it overclocks far :)

I used to think my Opteron at 3.15 Ghz was hot stuff...

BTW, the DDR2 ram prices aren't bad. My 2gb DDR2-800 kit was 200$ and is on par with my 2gb DDR500 kit, which cost me 225$ a half year ago. The prices are pretty comparable... the 400+ $ ram kits go past 1000 and absolutely MOP all DDR1...

[dnottis]

it will be a lot different seeing 2.8Ghz X2 and 3.6GHz E6600

But you are now comparing a $150 3800X2 to a ~$350 E6600

I'm not trying to convince people not to goto Conroe - I just dont see it being worth all the money it would cost to upgrade.... and for gamers it's still about the GPU. We all game with eyecandy and high res and your CPU doesn't make a heapful of difference....

I just feel like everyone is overlooking the obvious here. Does Conroe really excite anyone? I mean like NEXT GEN GPU excited??

[dinos22]

But you are now comparing a $150 3800X2 to a ~$350 E6600
that's what the original comparison is

who cares if you have to pay more for the chip but if you're really anal about it

$200 E6300 + ~$210 Asus P5B deluxe + $200 g.skill GBGA will get you a 3.5GHz Allendale against X2 2800+ at 2.8GHz

[dinos22]

I'm not trying to convince people not to goto Conroe - I just dont see it being worth all the money it would cost to upgrade.... and for gamers it's still about the GPU. We all game with eyecandy and high res and your CPU doesn't make a heapful of difference....

I just feel like everyone is overlooking the obvious here. Does Conroe really excite anyone? I mean like NEXT GEN GPU excited??
everyone knows that AMD was a bottleneck to newer GPUs.........only now that people started benching with conroe has that stopped being the case

and to answer that question YES!!!!!!!!!!! coming from a long time AMD user

[breakfromyou]

thank you for finally making this thread. ive been curious to see how a stock E6600 holds up against an overclocked X2, and what it takes for an X2 to compete.

we all know conroe owns superpi. stfu about that. kthx

btw: is there anyway possible that my 4400+@2.4 could bottleneck the rest of my system...lol im just curious since i think the 7900gt is overrated.

[dinos22]

why are people playing dumb

conroe and allendale will compete with any AMD S939/AM2 and beat it easily on anything not just superPI

[Ron 61]

I would get excited if I could get my hands on one of those ES that do 4GHz on water, now that would be nice.

[Absolute_0]

Does Conroe really excite anyone?

Sure does, it's XS, big numbers excite me, Conroe delivers. When i saw 999 on 3dmark01 for long stretches my eyes rolled back into my head and i couldn't stop smiling. I remember when i first broke 500 FPS on that benchmark i was happy hehe...

GPUs are fun for gaming, but i'm mostly into CPU overclocking, cooling and tinkering. I love having all this headroom and no coldbug, it's great.

[amrgb]

But you are now comparing a $150 3800X2 to a ~$350 E6600

I'm not trying to convince people not to goto Conroe - I just dont see it being worth all the money it would cost to upgrade.... and for gamers it's still about the GPU. We all game with eyecandy and high res and your CPU doesn't make a heapful of difference....

I just feel like everyone is overlooking the obvious here. Does Conroe really excite anyone? I mean like NEXT GEN GPU excited??

I don't game, and I actually need the cpu power for my research. And of course, on the free time F@H appreciates the extra power as well.

Again, for $150 an upgrade of a single core 939 rig can't be beaten. But alot of people are not in that situation. So...

[dinos22]

great sig

i remember that tool ROFL!!!

[Raybo]

I don't game, and I actually need the cpu power for my research. And of course, on the free time F@H appreciates the extra power as well.

Again, for $150 an upgrade of a single core 939 rig can't be beaten. But alot of people are not in that situation. So...

Right on!!


I just upgraded last to 939 last fall. :slap:

I can see yous guys that bench a lot going to Conroe, but as far as my rig getting me sleek performance................ i'm going to stick with my old 939 for a bit. (just bought a 3800 X2)

:toast:

[arisythila]

Dudes, and Dudettes.. Conroe rocks AMD like whoa.. Period.. Im really tired of hearing about it.. I really don't know why people bring these threads in here.. I think OP wanted to see this.. I dont know.

I think all "K8 V Conroe" Threads should be deleted. ALL of them. This will happen in every one of the threads.

All I can say is..

http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/2821/580buffd1ve4.th.jpg (http://img83.imageshack.us/my.php?image=580buffd1ve4.jpg)

~Mike

[Raybo]

I'm not sure anyone is familiar with OC'ing anymore, isn't it taking the cheapest CPU and getting it to almost the mhz of the most expensive CPU with some knowledge? (or beyond)

Have we have fallen on some bad times?

Let's just all have some fun.

:toast:

[Raybo]

I'm not sure anyone is familiar with OC'ing anymore, isn't it taking the cheapest CPU and getting it to almost the mhz of the most expensive CPU with some knowledge? (or beyond)

Have we have fallen on some bad times? Who cares what platform we use.

Let's just all have some fun.

:toast:

[vitaminc]

AM2 is a retarded upgrade too. AM2 was nothing more than AMD switching to high latency DDR 2 which has no performance increase over well tweaked DDR 1.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145033
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820146563

I dont consider $200 Corsair Value Select decent memory... sorry.

G.Skill F2-6400PHU2-2GBHZ is decent memory that can overclocks very well, and cost $250.

Higher price tag doesnt mean its a better product.

[Raybo]

Sorry, server must have been slow.


:slap:

[dinos22]

I'm not sure anyone is familiar with OC'ing anymore, isn't it taking the cheapest CPU and getting it to almost the mhz of the most expensive CPU with some knowledge? (or beyond)

yeah that's exactly right

here is a cheap setup........i think these Gigabyte boards are US$150

here's a couple of screenshots from E6400/E6300
Update!!!

3.8GHz 32M SuperPI
Sub-14m run W00T :leet: :leet: :leet:

http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/1339/3800mhz32msuperpi159v13m57187swmqn3.jpg (http://img95.imageshack.us/my.php?image=3800mhz32msuperpi159v13m57187swmqn3.j pg)


3.8GHz 3DMARK01
X800 Vanilla overclocked to 448/588 W.R. :D :D :D :D

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=9026406

http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/8518/3dmark0138101pointse640038ghzvga448588mhzairwmvn3. jpg (http://img92.imageshack.us/my.php?image=3dmark0138101pointse640038ghzvga44858 8mhzairwmvn3.jpg)



3840MHz 1M SuperPI

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/8357/3840mhz1msuperpi159v15359swmjq5.jpg (http://img213.imageshack.us/my.php?image=3840mhz1msuperpi159v15359swmjq5.jpg)




3.9GHz+ Screenshot

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/2852/cpu3912ic4.png (http://img213.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cpu3912ic4.png)




this is really the max prime for this motherboard 487MHz FSB!!!

E6300 >3.4GHz prime stable :)

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/9058/3409mhz487mhzfsb1hourprimestable135vhl5.jpg (http://img243.imageshack.us/my.php?image=3409mhz487mhzfsb1hourprimestable135vh l5.jpg)
these chips can go far.......even with el-cheapo motherboards:toast:

[arisythila]

Oh SWEET! SUPER PI!!!!! WOOT! 15 seconds! Thats WAY faster than AMD.

What about Games at 1600x1200 w/ AA 8x and AF 16x? Show us some benchmarks like that please. Or higher resolutions if you can.

Thanks

~Mike

[dinos22]

Oh SWEET! SUPER PI!!!!! WOOT! 15 seconds! Thats WAY faster than AMD.

What about Games at 1600x1200 w/ AA 8x and AF 16x? Show us some benchmarks like that please. Or higher resolutions if you can.

Thanks

~Mike
if you are comparing CPU performance you would know that the best way to do so is to run low res..........

anyways FYI 3DMARK01 is a good indicator how strong the CPU performance is

i improved a whopping 5000 points over my best score with Opteron 165@2.8GHz ..................just by going to Allendale .......

[arisythila]

I guess Doom2 would be aswell.. Maybe Quake2.. Hell lets go for Doom1, and Quake1.. Lets see how many FSP we can get, We can judge performace on that number. What do you think?

~Mike

[dinos22]

hey man at least i'm posting actual results you're just talking :banana::banana::banana::banana:

[Serge84]

Those scores don't look right.

http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e113/Serge84/?action=view&current=X7.jpg&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch1

This was my OC agenst the E6600 and E6700 in a OC. Sandra was really nice in telling me that its not worth it. My 150 buck cpu works just wonders.

The E6600 2.4ghz is in 64bit mode and the 3800+ X2 is in 32bit mode according to this guy who posted them and how the scores look on the 2.6ghz OC of the X2 to compare the 2.

Heres what the new sandra tells us the real scores are in a fair way benched by them. The E6600 benches only in reality as much as a FX60 in 32bit mode. There is only a 200mhz speed difference not anything higher in performance. The 3800+ X2 at 64bit mode would be getting more like 20,000 in sandra. Where did the E6600 get the 3000 extra points to hit 22,000? Hmm strange to me... Maybe cus its in 64-bit mode? This myth has been busted. :l Thats just not right. Only trying to make conroe look better then it is. How sad garilla benching is.

In reality the CPU's match eachother by a 200mhz difference not 400mhz or something crazy like that.

[dinos22]

anyone and everyone knows that sisoft sandra scores mean jack :banana::banana::banana::banana:.....whether you're on one or the other platform..........i remember when i was on AMD platform and the only thing Intel guys with Prescotts could show was Sisoft Sandra which was laughable as it didn't mean anything....now i'm on Intel and AMD guys are throwing around those figures as if it meant something heheh

[arisythila]

Well Conroe playing games @ 1600x1200 AA 8x and AF 16x, doesnt mean jack :banana::banana::banana::banana: when it comes to AMD.. :-)

~Mike

[dinos22]

you've lost me

show me something man how can i just keep reading your posts without any decent info on there except your crapping...........how hard can it be

[arisythila]

Well considering conroe gains 5-8 fps, and the amount of money you have to pay for it. I'd consider that "jack :banana::banana::banana::banana:"

~Mike

[Serge84]

My games run just fine on those settings with great FPS. And mine can load windows in one sec just like a conroe.

Ppl need to quit, No point in acting like conroe is all superior. Its only a 10% difference at best. Yeah conroe is 3 years old. What do you think AMD is? 3 years old. About time Intel cought up with a 3 year old arc means intel is 3 years behind when K8L and K10 roll around. Conroe only matches K8's at best. They must have copied off AMD.

[Serge84]

anyone and everyone knows that sisoft sandra scores mean jack :banana::banana::banana::banana:.....whether you're on one or the other platform..........i remember when i was on AMD platform and the only thing Intel guys with Prescotts could show was Sisoft Sandra which was laughable as it didn't mean anything....now i'm on Intel and AMD guys are throwing around those figures as if it meant something heheh

Your right. Only real world figures mean something. I experionced a E6700 before so only hype from the feel of it. My comp was just as fast at the same speed. Got about the same FPS give or take 5 or 7. Loads windows just as fast as my AMD. Real world says a $600 Conroe is just as good as my $150 OCed AMD.

Wow saved me a ton of money too cus I didn't get a crappy Intel board that will only last for this series. My AM2 has 4 optional series aready and to top that off with... optrons, 65nm, K8L, 4 cores, K10, and any other AM3 part on my AM2 mobo. Set for what 3 years of no need for upgrading a mobo or memory. Saves a lot of money.

What happens when a new series comes out for your intel board? Upgrade time as in new cpu = new mobo every time. lol Not for me cus I can slap a K8L in my baby and just get double the FPU of a conore and some nice L3 just cus I want to have that L3 box filled in CPUZ to say I have 2mb of L3. =P

[arisythila]

I had an E6600 ES, Oced to 4 ghz. Sold it, and Ill stick with AMD.

~Mike

[Jochenp]

My games run just fine on those settings with great FPS. And mine can load windows in one sec just like a conroe.

Ppl need to quit, No point in acting like conroe is all superior. Its only a 10% difference at best. Yeah conroe is 3 years old. What do you think AMD is? 3 years old. About time Intel cought up with a 3 year old arc means intel is 3 years behind when K8L and K10 roll around. Conroe only matches K8's at best. They must have copied off AMD.
You didn't get it, did you? It's not the conroe thats 3 years old, it's the K8 that is. And what do years matter as long as the performance is there? I always laugh at arguments for AM2/AMD like this.
Note that I'm not an Intel fanboy, I just bought myselfs an AM2 rig because it was DIIIIIRT CHEAP on Ebay.
I know it won't perform as good as Conroe, but at least it justifies it's price :)
Just accept that, don't try to persuade yourself and others that AM2 is as good as Conroe, it isn't! 10% is a lot you know, and it's more like 20-30% difference. Conroe beats it hands down, but some people go for bang for buck rather than performance over all.
Thats the ONLY reason to go AM2.
AFAIK there hasn't been ANY official confirmation of AMD or any other company that could know that K8L or AM3 will support the AM2 platform.
If there is, correct me 'cause that would give people quite a decent reason to buy AM2.

Jochenp

[arisythila]

AMD stated that K8L Will be Socket AM3. They also said that you can run K8L with AM2 and run it with DDR2, instead of DDR3.

~Mike

[Serge84]

So you call loading windows just as fast roughtly 1 sec. Same as mine agenst the conroe. Give or take 5-7 more FPS, horrible load times agenst mine. Doesn't do much anyfaster as I can tell. Seems like it was made to bench and not made for much best else. In my oppinion it just in the real world doesn't reflect its so called power. 20% 30% performance difference? Where cus I must be blind not to see it when I actouly experionced both conroe and a "X2 actouly have". So not what its all craked upto be but hay thats just me. Maybe a intel dude upgrading from a PD will get a kick out of it. But no nothing is like AMD.

AMD same arc for 3 years. Conore comes and matches it. Yeah Conroe is 3 years behind. This is 2006. They finally matched 3 year old arcs from 2003. Do the math. Conore matched a AMD arc K8's equal the same about as conroe so its about time intel cought up. Don't you think? Up agenst the big old K8's 3 years ago they could do the same thing. Tell ya something there yet? This is just like 2003 and when K8L comes out intel will again be 3 years behind.

Don't ya just love how the intel crowd reacts to this sort of thing. Its so funny. Man if I was a admin I'd deleate every stupid remark intel ppl had to say "OMG conroe is the bomb and it will wooop your AMD, blow the doors off it like theres no tomarrow". Its really not THAT different. Its not superior. Its just a cpu that happened to have a minor advantage over a 3 year old arc. But the feel in the real world just isn't there. This is a AMD fourm. Why are intel discussions going on in AMD forum? This isn't a superiorrity contest. Its only a bloody cpu. Conroe is... Not GOD! lol As far as I can tell AMD and Conroes are pretty much equal and lets just leave it as that on a neutral playing feild.

Lets go back to talking about AMD. Intel can go back to their forums and talk about how superior their conroe is. Everybody has a oppinion, nobodys going to change there minds on whats better. No matter how many benches, conroe isn't going to impress me. Great intel finally did something right for once so lets leave it at that. Nobodys going to be changed from fandom to fandom. I'm neutral and just say what I experionced on it. So whats it to anybody! Get out of the bloody forums cus ppl like you are the ones who start them in the 1st place. Only adding fuel to the fire. What do you expect? =P Your going to get the responce you deserve. >D MA HAHAHAHA!

[Absolute_0]

You guys are ridiculous. Why do we overclock? I sure can't FEEL the difference between 2 Ghz and 2.8 Ghz on an Opteron, similarly it gives us only a few more frames, but HELL we still do it because it's fun and that's what we're about here. Who cares if you notice a difference when clicking around in windows? I haven't noticed a significant difference in windows since my 2400+ AXP.

2400+ AXP to 3200+ Venice... no big difference, 3200+ Venice to 3800+ X2, 3800+ X2 to Opteron 170. All very small differences...
Then moving to a Conroe, much larger difference, and i see people complaining about how it's a waste of money :rolleyes:

You want to save money Mike, go ahead, but don't threadcrap the rest of us that are happy with what we bought. I like fast and i'm willing to pay for it.

I'm gonna quote mdzcpa on this one to give added perspective

As CPUs go, Conroe is a huge leap forward. It crushes anything AMD has to offer.

Gaming is only one facet and getting into GPU limited measurements have no place in a discussion about Conroe performance because its the same for ANY cpu. That said, Conroe still takes the the best gaming CPU title anyways...its only a matter of by how much depending on GPU.

(Of course when playing a game like Rise and Fall Civilizations at War the Conroe simply mops the floor with any AMD cpu. I've haven't been able to "chug" the system with this X6800 like I could with my FX60 when putting 500 units on the battlefield).

Moving away from gaming and into other computing tasks, and Conroe's modest lead in GPU limited gaming jumps up to a crushing lead. I'm big into digital media and all I have to say is working with Conroe adds some serious "seat fo the pants" improvement.

When all is said and done, the Conroe jump over K8 is larger than when K8 jumped the P4, and when the K7 jumped the P3. Its really the biggest leap forward I can remember since I've been in the hobby. And I say this as someone that actually favored AMD a little over the years.

So, if that counts as "living up to the hype" then I suppose it does:)

[vitaminc]

AMD same arc for 3 years. Conore comes and matches it. Yeah Conroe is 3 years behind. This is 2006. They finally matched 3 year old arcs from 2003. Do the math. Conore matched a AMD arc K8's equal the same about as conroe so its about time intel cought up. Don't you think? Up agenst the big old K8's 3 years ago they could do the same thing. Tell ya something there yet? This is just like 2003 and when K8L comes out intel will again be 3 years behind.

Athlon 64 X2 is only 1 year old, and its based on different fabrics (although similar cores) compare to K8. K8L will be the same arc next year in terms of core logic. Its basically the same core with slight IPC improvements (at IF stage and SSE units), with tons of different fabrics.

You are talking about K8L as a brand new thing, but its only a different name for rev.H in reality. K9 is dead, K10 is so far down the road. I guess you can always use the age of the K8 architecture as an execuse for arguments.

[MustardTheoRy]

x2 3800 @ 2.75 Ghz (Air) vs. E6600@ 2.7 Ghz (Air)

The E6600 @ 2.7 Ghz (can you say E6700) scores almost the same though slower in Science mark 2 benchmarks; mol dyn, cipher and primordia as the x2 3800 @ 2.6 Ghz with the x2 being .1 seconds faster
Run Science Mark 2 on your own X2's @2.6 and see for yourself

The E6600 scores around 18.75 sec in 1m calcs :banana:

Now before you feel like your amd x2 rig is obsolete looking at these sandra scores I can come close enough to the E6600 scores in CPU arithmetic by OCIng the x2 3800 to 2.75Ghz. This is an impressive OC on air not many people could do that on a manchester core, especially with one core being a Dud.:slap:
Also by using and older version of sandra(to make a point)
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/8757/275ghzmemddr550275mhz11bx6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/2782/e660027ghzcp2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
The point is the newer version of sandra in the begining of the year was released right around when the core 2 ES's went out
the percentage % of the mips droppage of AMD X2's is higher than that of Intel chips.
And if you compare the newer benchmark scores of X2's to that of the older version of sandra X2's scores they are radically changed or a calculated deception? The Mips are dropped tremendously and the mflops are raised some. If you want to argue that "well they revaluated the cpu's" the score drops for AMD are not proportionate to Intel.
But lo and behold in the newer version of sandra; the core 2 e6600 @ 2.7 scores closely with the early version of sandra benchmarks of the x2 3800 @ 2.75. And on top of that, to prove it they score much a like in Science mark 2 ; and the X2 is around 10 seconds slower in Super Pi at this point too.


Now in gaming with the E6600 in FEAR high res 1680x1050 with high settings, it scored 9-10 fps better than the x2 3800 in minumum fps in the test settings benchmark feature in the game.
Also HL2 ep 1 seemed to have a few extra fps
Contrary though the E6600 at 2.4 ghz~3.06ghz scored the same fps in FEAR even though I OCed till i hit a 350 fsb wall.
Now i didn't compare 640 x 480 because at least 20 sites did that already. heh

The X2 3800 seems to run XP smoother than the e6600 @ any Freq. Vista remains to be seen.

The original goal of this thread was to have a comparison of a stock e6600 vs OCed x23800 to show that it isnt worth the upgrade if you have an X2 amd system already unless you need that slight bit of extra processing power with a slower XP (XP=experience)

I am enjoying the new chip but not that much considering I have a perfectly good x2 3800 thats almost identical (except super pi)and i just dropped $270 for p5wdh $240 for 2 gigs gskill 2bghz, $360 E6600 $140 Seasonic 600w psu $35 ninja scythe $180 2 WD SATA HDD's. E66 runs cooler 26 C full load at 3 Ghz and has some newer tech like SEE 4 so i can run Mac OS X Leopard and also virtualization tech and the extra 9 frames in FEAR is benifit I guess.Hopefully i'll be able to OC enough to see the results i was expecting

[nn_step]

When do we get to see more benchmarks? I want to see conroe ruin that 3800+ wOOt!

~Mike
Are you a payed fanboy or just a Conroe Fanboy? :rolleyes:

[xlink]

This is not 3 year old technology. Its technology from this year.


based on that definition, I guesse conroe is 9-10 years old since it is loosely based on P6...

[Zone^55 Live!]

My X2 3800+ does 2.9Ghz at stock voltages, if you want i can do benchmarks to compare against a E6400 or E6600....


Stay well!

[nn_step]

based on that definition, I guesse conroe is 9-10 years old since it is loosely based on P6...
Why don't we put it this way. IF it is more than 40% different (transistor design, Double cores do not count) than we will call it a different architecture.
Now K8 going dual cores required NO changes in the individual cores. Only the removal of one of the FSB's and a few Minor Interconnects (accounting for less than 1% of the transistors used by ONE core)
On the Other hand Conroe has a factor of 4 greater number of Transistors than the last P6 design

[arisythila]

Are you a payed fanboy or just a Conroe Fanboy? :rolleyes:

hahaha, Please don't call me a fanboy. If anything call me an AMD Fanboy.

~Mike

[arisythila]

I am enjoying the new chip but not that much considering I have a perfectly good x2 3800 thats almost identical (except super pi)and i just dropped $270 for p5wdh $240 for 2 gigs gskill 2bghz, $360 E6600 $140 Seasonic 600w psu $35 ninja scythe $180 2 WD SATA HDD's. E66 runs cooler 26 C full load at 3 Ghz and has some newer tech like SEE 4 so i can run Mac OS X Leopard and also virtualization tech and the extra 9 frames in FEAR is benifit I guess.Hopefully i'll be able to OC enough to see the results i was expecting

You wont, at 4 ghz. I didnt notice much difference.

~Mike

[arisythila]

You want to save money Mike, go ahead, but don't threadcrap the rest of us that are happy with what we bought. I like fast and i'm willing to pay for it.


I just feel like it wasnt worth the amount of money I paid for it, then again I paid about 600 dollars for it. I was able to do 4 ghz out of it(It was an ES)

The mainboard was 300 dollars too. Memory I got a good deal on that. Patriot 6400LL (I think 260 dollars)

I spent 1160 dollars on it all. Thats kinda crazy.

~Mike

[dinos22]

budget-xtremesystems.org

FUGGER will love it :banana:

[dnottis]

x2 3800 @ 2.75 Ghz (Air) vs. E6600@ 2.7 Ghz (Air)

The E6600 @ 2.7 Ghz (can you say E6700) scores almost the same though slower in Science mark 2 benchmarks; mol dyn, cipher and primordia as the x2 3800 @ 2.6 Ghz with the x2 being .1 seconds faster
Run Science Mark 2 on your own X2's @2.6 and see for yourself

The E6600 scores around 18.75 sec in 1m calcs :banana:

Now before you feel like your amd x2 rig is obsolete looking at these sandra scores I can come close enough to the E6600 scores in CPU arithmetic by OCIng the x2 3800 to 2.75Ghz. This is an impressive OC on air not many people could do that on a manchester core, especially with one core being a Dud.:slap:
Also by using and older version of sandra(to make a point)
The point is the newer version of sandra in the begining of the year was released right around when the core 2 ES's went out
the percentage % of the mips droppage of AMD X2's is higher than that of Intel chips.
And if you compare the newer benchmark scores of X2's to that of the older version of sandra X2's scores they are radically changed or a calculated deception? The Mips are dropped tremendously and the mflops are raised some. If you want to argue that "well they revaluated the cpu's" the score drops for AMD are not proportionate to Intel.
But lo and behold in the newer version of sandra; the core 2 e6600 @ 2.7 scores closely with the early version of sandra benchmarks of the x2 3800 @ 2.75. And on top of that, to prove it they score much a like in Science mark 2 ; and the X2 is around 10 seconds slower in Super Pi at this point too.


Now in gaming with the E6600 in FEAR high res 1680x1050 with high settings, it scored 9-10 fps better than the x2 3800 in minumum fps in the test settings benchmark feature in the game.
Also HL2 ep 1 seemed to have a few extra fps
Contrary though the E6600 at 2.4 ghz~3.06ghz scored the same fps in FEAR even though I OCed till i hit a 350 fsb wall.
Now i didn't compare 640 x 480 because at least 20 sites did that already. heh

The X2 3800 seems to run XP smoother than the e6600 @ any Freq. Vista remains to be seen.

The original goal of this thread was to have a comparison of a stock e6600 vs OCed x23800 to show that it isnt worth the upgrade if you have an X2 amd system already unless you need that slight bit of extra processing power with a slower XP (XP=experience)

I am enjoying the new chip but not that much considering I have a perfectly good x2 3800 thats almost identical (except super pi)and i just dropped $270 for p5wdh $240 for 2 gigs gskill 2bghz, $360 E6600 $140 Seasonic 600w psu $35 ninja scythe $180 2 WD SATA HDD's. E66 runs cooler 26 C full load at 3 Ghz and has some newer tech like SEE 4 so i can run Mac OS X Leopard and also virtualization tech and the extra 9 frames in FEAR is benifit I guess.Hopefully i'll be able to OC enough to see the results i was expecting


That just confirmed what I expected. I have a X2 3800 @ 3.0 Ghz and I because of the resolution I game at I just did not expect a conroe to do anything but put a hole in my wallet the size of Texas. Reports that I've seen have also mentioned the X2s still being smoother in games and in windows....I just don't think conroe is worth the money it would cost to upgrade a well overclocked and tuned 939.

Thank you!!! :toast:

[Jochenp]

based on that definition, I guesse conroe is 9-10 years old since it is loosely based on P6...
Based on that definition, the usage of 0's and 1's as data is VERY old technology, and all cpu's still use it, thus making them all obsolete the day they are invented :fact: :toast:
If the performance increase is there, what does it matter if the technology is totally new or just an optimized version of older technology.
So what if the x2 are just two cores on one cpu, there was a big performance increase.
Does it matter if they got it using older technology and optimize it rather than a new architecture?
Intel came up with Conroe, new technology, beating the old one. Good job Intel.
Now if you guys had come up with an optimized PD that was just as fast, I would have been equally satisfied.

Jochenp

[gallag]

When did performance stop mattering?

This is quite sad really, Conroe is faster, cooler, uses less power and has more oc headroom.

What is not to like?

Comments like “my 4ghz core 2 duo was not all that” just make you look like a hard core fanboy mike (p.s. are you mad mod mike from toms hardware)

You say that you notice no difference between Conroe at 4ghz and your x2 but you would probably be quick to notice the difference between a pd and a x2 or was it that performance mattered more back then?

What people seem to forget is that this is XTREAM SYSTEMS not price per performance systems or its cheaper to upgrade a 939 systems, you scoff and say what point does high scores on benchmarks mean but when k8l comes about and (hopefully) reigns supreme I have a feeling that the context of many of your posts will be “woot, k8l owned Conroe in super pi” or “k8l no1 on the orb”

If k8l bests Conroe in super pi or 3dmark etc will you say ”so, its only 5fps faster in games than Conroe”?

I know I wont, faster is always better

[Mats]

MustardTheoRy: What graphics card do you use?

[dnottis]

When did performance stop mattering?


When the performance increase only equates to shaving seconds in SuperPI. A handful of FPS in games? Save your pennies for R600 or G80 to make that $600 upgrade deliver something you can see. Sorry Conroe - just not impressed enough to spend $1000 for ya.

I'm really impressed with the AMD X2's right now and the price drop. $150 for my X2 and it's prime stable at 3 Ghz. Now that is something to get excited about!! :)

[MustardTheoRy]

Mike and Dnottis your correct I don't notice a difference using XP. As far a gaming there was a 1 fps increase when OCed to 3.6 GHz on the minimum fps in FEAR so about 10 more than my X2 3800 @ 2.6GHz and Hl2 Ep 1 played the same. I suspect the framerate will be less of a variable with the E66.

Gallag the benchmarks do translate into real world performance which I will use to uncompress rars and also build files with winrar to create images or dvd's and without a doubt will be quicker than anything I've seen on an AMD X2; Im talking seconds. These processors are becoming so quick that in certain apps or functions its hard to tell with the human eye. I suppose we will start microbenching in the next few years.

The performance of the E66 @3.6Ghz flies away from the X2 3800 in all benchmarks but untill there are programs that can take advantage of the processing power its not going to makeXP quicker as the bottleneck is the HDD's of today. We might see the increase in Vista and when running Suse 10.1 with xgl and Leopard Mac OS X with the virtualization technology. Though the old FSB tech maybe a bottleneck when it comes to running more than one OS. Im sure AMD's 4x4 tech will be better suited for that with each its own HT

Also Mats I have a x1900xt OCed to XTX+ speeds and Use the vivo tech to encode video which crushes any cpu (except ballistic terahertz cpu's) with transcoding. If I had an Nvidia card I would want a E6600 @ 3.6 for video encoding since none of the nvida cards can transcode :stick:
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/6530/e660036ghztz3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/5986/e660036ghzen5.jpg

In the end I think the e6600 is a worthy replacement to my x2 3800 especially OCed to 3.6 GHz stable and I know I can reach 3.8 Ghz on air with insane vcore which may not be stable. Until the processing power can be tapped in more than one way other than winrar and benchmarks unless you have the money and the need to be on the bleeding edge swashbuckling than this upgrade is not needed at the momment.

1 more thing the x2 3800 is one of the best chips I've ever owned and even untill this day has never disappointed me.

Admins sorry for the high res pics??

[dnottis]

:clap: MustardTheoRy :clap:

[dinos22]

i am yet to notice a difference in windows you guys speak of from my 3 year old hyperthreaded P4 system.............................i regretted BAD going to A64 until dual cores came in ;)

[menlatin]

I think is hilarious how ppl are saying conroe/allendale is hardly better than A64. you know, When you compare clock for clock and stock settings, you may be right, there isn;t really much difference. But the kicker come in when you can take a the LOW end core 2 duo, and overclock it way further than an a64.

Here at MF'in XS, THATS what matters. THATS what this site is all about, and THAT is all that ppl like me care about. So how gives a flyin foobar, if clock for clock they're the same.

All i know if my core2 is faster in the things that i do than my x2 @ 2.7ghz. And i can run my fans @ 5v instead of 12v, so its silent power baby! If i crank up the fans 3.6ghz is right there.

And for the record, i spent $150 after selling my amd parts for my core2 setup. $260 cpu, $185 ram, $145 board.

EDIT : And if you really want some accurate comparisons, why dont you take an x2 4800 @ stock and compare it to the e6600. 2.4ghz vs 2.4ghz stock. Then overclock em both and sit down.

[MustardTheoRy]

menlatin "I think is hilarious how ppl are saying conroe/allendale is hardly better than A64.you know, When you compare clock for clock and stock settings, you may be right, there isn;t really much difference." ...LMAO ..sorry. Dood nice to meet you, but this is the AMD Hardware thread

[AndrewZorn]

i got directed to this thread by flamebait (and it worked) via the AMD forums. apparently some people have enough time to search the internet for the one person who is not happy with their C2D.

(i do not disrespect your opinion, MustardTheoRy)

but i mean come on

as far as 'noticing', it doesnt get any better than lag-free desktop, 60fps, and under-a-minute unzips and encodes. i mean, a C2D isn't going to make windows better.

i [will have] spent approx. $160 going from 2.7ghz Opteron 170 to E6600, P5W, and DDR2. notice that i get better memory and more features on the board, so not even all of that $160 was CPU.

'noticeable' on the desktop or not, $160 for 40% is something everyone (except AMD forums) (and only because the IHS has the wrong words on it) can agree with.

however i will be doing some noticing. i get under 60fps in oblivion, like everyone else. im not saying it will be instantly smooth, but when you're under 60fps, there is room for improvement. and i buy expensive/new hardware for future games and apps, not past ones... else i'd stick with a 3200+ my entire life.

[arisythila]

Very nice Andrew. We both agree. I hate it when i see 3dmark01, and 03 benchmarks. I think people should stick with 05, and 06. Thats it.

~Mike

[foch3 -USA-]

I just switched from an A64 to conroe and its pretty fast but the difference isnt huge in the games I play. Windows takes longer to load but superpi is done before you know it. When k8l comes out ill probably switch back and use the conroe for an HTPC.

[menlatin]

menlatin "I think is hilarious how ppl are saying conroe/allendale is hardly better than A64.you know, When you compare clock for clock and stock settings, you may be right, there isn;t really much difference." ...LMAO ..sorry. Dood nice to meet you, but this is the AMD Hardware thread

Who cares what sub-forum we're in, the POINT is that what makes core 2 better than x2 is the fact that you can take a core 2 to much higher speeds much easier. We are comparing the x2 to core 2 right?

Like i said, this is XS, where we overclock, alot. Thats what we do. Thats why hardforum, and anandtech forums, and so many other forums link to THIS forum because of how much/well we overclock, and how far we go to get most out of our hardware. And when WE get ahold of core 2 and compare it to x2, we go balls to the wall and see that core 2 beats the crap out of x2. Be it with air cooing, water, dice, phase, ln2 whatever. It overclocks more thus goes faster. Im disproving your argument that there is little performance difference between the two.

And hey, just incase some wants to try and call me a fan boy, I've only had this core 2 system for 3 days. Got my x2 3800 LAST October, burnt it up in January, got an opteron 144, then got another x2 when the prices dropped. Now i can't be happier because everything is so much faster than my x2 ever was.

[MustardTheoRy]

Who cares what sub-forum we're in, the POINT is that what makes core 2 better than x2 is the fact that you can take a core 2 to much higher speeds much easier. We are comparing the x2 to core 2 right?

Like i said, this is XS, where we overclock, alot. Thats what we do. Thats why hardforum, and anandtech forums, and so many other forums link to THIS forum because of how much/well we overclock, and how far we go to get most out of our hardware. And when WE get ahold of core 2 and compare it to x2, we go balls to the wall and see that core 2 beats the crap out of x2. Be it with air cooing, water, dice, phase, ln2 whatever. It overclocks more thus goes faster. Im disproving your argument that there is little performance difference between the two.

And hey, just incase some wants to try and call me a fan boy, I've only had this core 2 system for 3 days. Got my x2 3800 LAST October, burnt it up in January, got an opteron 144, then got another x2 when the prices dropped. Now i can't be happier because everything is so much faster than my x2 ever was.


Menlatin you didn't disprove anything with the fanboy like tripe with all due respect. Also if you look at pics you can see clearly that when OC'ed the E6600 leaves behind the x2 3800 in benchmarks and I also stated that. I also said that it is hard to see the performance diff unless you have and app or process that can advantage from it. And as far as XP is concerned the x2 is faster, end of story. But its so minimal only the trained eye can notice. Read the posts I already said it your just not gettin it; UNBIASED, NEUTRAL
because of how much/well we overclock, and how far we go to get most out of our hardware. And when WE get ahold of core 2 and compare it to x2, we go balls to the wall and see that core 2 beats the crap out of x2. Be it with air cooing, water, dice, phase, ln2 whatever. It overclocks more thus goes faster.

Thats what I did :cool: sorta

PS AndrewZorn love your avatar; just so you know Im happy I just wasn't elated but its growing on me. was a bit dissapointed I couldn't hit 3.8 Ghz stable

[dqniel]

A 3800 is $150, they overclock to 2.8 or 2.9 Ghz. Use existing motherboard and memory. Sure Conroe is new and faster clock for clock. But you cannot tell me it's worth $200+ for the chip, $400+ for 2GB of decent DDR2 and $250+ for a nice motherboard.

Like whoa - 5 fps gain for high res gaming (since we all know the GPU is still the bottleneck at high res) and 10 seconds faster in SuperPI (I'm sure everyone plays alot of multiplayer SuperPI) for $700 - now thats just friggin' stupid.

e6300 for $186, DS3 for $150, G.Skill Micron chips for $230 and overclock to around 3ghz. Slightly more expensive, way faster. It would be completely worth it if you're building an entirely new system and can't decide between AMD and Intel.

[MustardTheoRy]

e6300 for $186, DS3 for $150, G.Skill Micron chips for $230 and overclock to around 3ghz. Slightly more expensive, way faster. It would be completely worth it if you're building an entirely new system and can't decide between AMD and Intel.
Honeslty If I was really straped for cash I would go for the x2 3800 system everything for it is cheaper.

[kschaffner]

Here is a 19 page review of the following against each other.
AMD Athlon 64 FX-62 (2.8GHz/1MBx2)
AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ (2.6GHz/512KBx2)
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4600+ (2.4GHz/512KBx2)
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ (2.2GHz/512KBx2)
AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ (2.0GHz/512KBx2)
Intel Pentium Extreme Edition 965 (3.73GHz/2MBx2)
Intel Pentium D 960 (3.6GHz/2MBx2)
Intel Pentium D 950 (3.4GHz/2MBx2)
Intel Pentium D 940 (3.2GHz/2MBx2)
Intel Pentium D 930 (3.0GHz/2MBx2)
Intel Pentium D 920 (2.8GHz/2MBx2)
Intel Pentium D 820 (2.8GHz/1MBx2)
Intel Core 2 Extreme X6800 (2.93GHz/4MB)
Intel Core 2 Duo E6700 (2.66GHz/4MB)
Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 (2.40GHz/4MB)
Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 (1.86GHz/2MB)
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2795&p=1

[Absolute_0]

Honeslty If I was really straped for cash I would go for the x2 3800 system everything for it is cheaper.

And a Celeron is even cheaper, but price/performance ratio is what's relevant here. dqniel suggested a system with a likeable spot on the price/performance curve, of course you can always go lower on the curve so what.

[HARDCORECLOCKER]

:D When will be K8 released ??? :confused:

:toast:

[MustardTheoRy]

ok price performance I'd go with the e6300 on advice from a friend.

[cujo]

A 3800 is $150, they overclock to 2.8 or 2.9 Ghz. Use existing motherboard and memory. Sure Conroe is new and faster clock for clock. But you cannot tell me it's worth $200+ for the chip, $400+ for 2GB of decent DDR2 and $250+ for a nice motherboard.

Like whoa - 5 fps gain for high res gaming (since we all know the GPU is still the bottleneck at high res) and 10 seconds faster in SuperPI (I'm sure everyone plays alot of multiplayer SuperPI) for $700 - now thats just friggin' stupid.

you obviously haven't played counterstrike source. i'm running 1920x1200 with everything maxxed and still cpu limited. except on nuke, inferno and militia.

my next cpu will be an e6600. if that even touches 3ghz i'm fairly certain i will start to be vid card limited in cs:s.

reviews never test cpu limited games. all they do is take vid card limited games and drop the res and vid options.

[ElMoIsEviL]

Hey dude! (MustardTheoRy)

Nice thread man... those are the exact findings I'm also experiencing. I find my Athlon64 X2 4800+ @ 3.2Ghz to be more responsive then my Core 2 Xtreme rig in Windows XP. I'm assuming it has something to do with the pure FPU performance of the K8 architecture as opposed to the Core 2's stronger integer performance.

Games and most apps seem to love the Core 2's wider 128bit SSE architecture but Windows XP seems to not have been coded to take advantage of such features. Perhaps Windows VISTA will bring more performance. Also it's nice to see you hitting 3.6GHz on air. That's some awesome performance there..:P

I'm going to probably start a thread. I'm running on default voltages now and hitting 3.8GHz. I'll see if I can't get this puppy above 4.5GHz. Who knows..:)

Peace â€:banana:

[SkunK]

Who cares what sub-forum we're in, the POINT is that what makes core 2 better than x2 is the fact that you can take a core 2 to much higher speeds much easier. We are comparing the x2 to core 2 right?

Better in what way?

crappier motherboards and even worst BIOSes?
high temps for a "cool" processor?


I've been following the Core 2 saga for months on the "other" forum and apart from the Engineering Samples, the only stories I read there always begin with the world "Help!". Either there are loads of problems with the new Intel chips (cpus and chipsets), either people in the Intel section are all overclocker-wanna-bes.

I was minded to buy a Conroe kit just for the fun of it. But when I look at the motherboards available and I see that one of the cheapest ones (the DS3) has no better features than my old Ultra-D (which never cost more than 3/4 of the price asked for the DS3), has a chipset cooling system on which I could fry eggs, doesn't boot with many ram sticks because of lack of voltage and so on, I decided not to do it in the end. Sure, mastubating in front of ONE SPI window all day could be fun in a deviant sort of way but that's not my thing.

Oh, and finally, anyone should love this:

Q: Why not run Dual SPI on a dual core cpu?
A: Shared cache, I can't impress anyone if I do multitasking.


(Quotes taken from this thread (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=112757)).

[ElMoIsEviL]

Better in what way?

crappier motherboards and even worst BIOSes?
high temps for a "cool" processor?


I've been following the Core 2 saga for months on the "other" forum and apart from the Engineering Samples, the only stories I read there always begin with the world "Help!". Either there are loads of problems with the new Intel chips (cpus and chipsets), either people in the Intel section are all overclocker-wanna-bes.

I was minded to buy a Conroe kit just for the fun of it. But when I look at the motherboards available and I see that one of the cheapest ones (the DS3) has no better features than my old Ultra-D (which never cost more than 3/4 of the price asked for the DS3), has a chipset cooling system on which I could fry eggs, doesn't boot with many ram sticks because of lack of voltage and so on, I decided not to do it in the end. Sure, mastubating in front of ONE SPI window all day could be fun in a deviant sort of way but that's not my thing.

Oh, and finally, anyone should love this:


(Quotes taken from this thread (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=112757)).

Ohhhh... and the fun begins.. :slapass:

Hey Fanboy Steve! (I'm calling you Steve, have a problem with it... call your House Rep). Keep your frustrations to yourself. We don't need your flagrant, narrow minded attitude polluting a VERY informative thread.

There are no more issues with Core 2 as there were with X2 when it first appeared. It's a new Processor, new platform and new BIOS/Drivers. I seem to recall having TONS of initial problems with my X2.

It's narrow minded fanboys having a strange erotic fetish for either AMD or Intel that ruin threads (but I should point out that there are more AMD fanboys then Intel fanboys... Sharikou PHD being the dumbest of them all).

You don't like Core 2... then fine.. make a thread about it post some sad story and share it with other like minded imbeciles. No one here cares. Although I may be new to this forum I've been biatch slapping fanboys since 1996.

In case you haven't noticed I'm impartial, and I actually own the hardware before I comment about it. You should try that too.. it's called "gathering knowledge".

â€:banana: PEACE â€:banana:

P.S. I don't need to masturbate in front of my Computer to enjoy my Core 2 Xtreme. :banana:

[ScythedBlade]

What I've noticed is that apparently ... AMD fanboys are usually ... more stubborn ... (Like 4 years ago, A64s owned P4s in gaming, but P4s were simply more responsive ...) ehh oh well ... Although I must agree that AMD boots faster ... probably because of better chipset ... we'll just have to wait until the bios revisions come out ... for the time being, an X2's good enough, but it's just a tiny bit slower (yea 15% isn't noticable) ...

[Mats]

Sure, mastubating in front of ONE SPI window all day could be fun in a deviant sort of way but that's not my thing.
LOL!!!! :D

TWO instances of SPI really turns me on though.....:eek:

[AndrewZorn]

you obviously haven't played counterstrike source. i'm running 1920x1200 with everything maxxed and still cpu limited. except on nuke, inferno and militia.

my next cpu will be an e6600. if that even touches 3ghz i'm fairly certain i will start to be vid card limited in cs:s.

reviews never test cpu limited games. all they do is take vid card limited games and drop the res and vid options.
i hear that. and no one believes me.

opteron at 2.7ghz: dust1, militia, nuke were about the only ones i got sub-60fps (only at CERTAIN parts...) (but im a stickler for vsync, and 60fps even during 40 player matches with smoke all over the place)

805D at 3.5ghz: instantly noticed the difference. took off AA, still get under 60fps on normal maps when you start putting more than 20, 25 players on the maps. and not random dips, when you have many players onscreen, it definately sits at 45fps...


ANYWAY to the rest of the stuff on this thread...

everyone at AMD forums used to 'LOL' at shared cache. guess who is using shared cache next... AMD. i am a long time member and big poster over there, but when i heard about conroe, it intrigued me, i reviewed my options, and decided to go for it. i and the handful that agree with me have basically turned the forum upside down. when intel was losing, it was commonplace to see LOL PRESSHOT etc, but now that intel is winning, literally any discussion that mentions the idea that a conroe even exists is promptly deleted. you cant suggest it, you cant post benchmarks, you cant talk about it. this all assumes that within 5mins of the matter being posted the thread does not turn into a huge flamewar.

ill keep it short because i feel like i type the same arguments daily to those that literally attack me on AMD forums because of my decision, and position on the fact that i dont care WHO makes it, i just care which one is best.

i think AMD fans lately are more hardcore for a good reason: AMD has been ahead for a long time. and DIY computing hasnt been nearly as popular as it has been lately. even i started building myself when AMD was doing AXP. theyve been raised on the simple principle that AMD is faster, cheaper, more power efficient, and a hometown friendly company instead of a moneygrabbing megacorporation. so naturally, when intel finally regains (even if it is only for 6mos as they believe), they make really lame excuses.

even when i explained how my buy/resell strategy has given me conroe for under $150, they still say that 40% is nothing to be amazed about. on top of that, the 939 stuff would have been worth at least $150 LESS than what the conroe stuff would be worth in a year. in a way, it's 'free'. so if K8L really is what they think it's going to be, i basically just got a year of fun with intel.

ive been called wasteful, indulgent, etc as well as [recently] been accused of being an intel spokesman (like, im being paid with intel products to promote intel) which is asinine for more reasons than i can count (#1 being the fact that i dont even have a conroe yet)

this always gives me a laugh
http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1029681586&postcount=12
because it paraphrases what you read from AMD fans every day

ill stop now

[xlink]

you are wasteful and indulgent...

I'm about the same as you right now at this time though...

and people,. he doesn't exagerate when he sayss that eh is a big time poster, he has over 10k posts...

and for the record, at this time, conroe/allendale is still too expensive for the average user(OEM wise, no overclocking) to truely justify. On that same note, Ax2 3800+ is better when compared to a Pentium D 8/9XX at this time cost/performance wise x2 3800+ beats PD940 in most instances at 30$ less

[vitaminc]

lol @ the AMD fanboiz.

Just go backtrack this forum on how people's argument evolves over the course of this year. I still remember eariler this year some people are still believing AM2 is AMD's answer to Conroe. And then they argue that 65nm AM2 is AMD's answer to Conroe after AM2 was out with basically no performance increase to S939. And now Conroe is officially out with some mind numbing performance improvement from both AM2 and P4D, people starting to argue how AM2 has better cost/performance and how K8L will be so much better.

I guess when Intel releases E4300 later this year or early next year, the only argument that AMD fans have left would how godly K8L will be. And if that's true at the K8L release, they will forget about every wrong thing they claim before and say "told ya".

[Ic3man]

Sure, mastubating in front of ONE SPI window all day could be fun in a deviant sort of way but that's not my thing.



Funniest thing I read all day:clap:

[marauder16]

I'm building a new PC and I am so into AMD that I'd never buy anything else again, anything but AM2 no matter how better Conroe is. (And don't look at my sig and say 'you have Intel' I have it cause in 2001 when I got this crap I didn't know what to do if I wanted to format...)

[marauder16]

no, it was just a statement :rolleyes:

[arisythila]

lol @ the AMD fanboiz.


Assuming fanboiz = fanboys. (and hes from California too...... maybe hes FOB)

I personally don't think there is anything wrong with being a "fanboy". You use this word with such critism. Why? Whats wrong with perfering one brand over the other. Some people perfer ATI. some Nvidia. Some people like Ford, some like chevy.. Honda, or nissan.. Some AMD, some Intel. I dont know why this always turns up as "fanboiz".

"laugh out loud at AMD fanboiz"

Seriously now.... :slap:

Maybe your just REALLY happy that Intel has something better than AMD. Would that mean that your an Intel "fanboiz"?

~Mike

[vitaminc]

Assuming fanboiz = fanboys. (and hes from California too...... maybe hes FOB)

I personally don't think there is anything wrong with being a "fanboy". You use this word with such critism. Why? Whats wrong with perfering one brand over the other. Some people perfer ATI. some Nvidia. Some people like Ford, some like chevy.. Honda, or nissan.. Some AMD, some Intel. I dont know why this always turns up as "fanboiz".

"laugh out loud at AMD fanboiz"

Seriously now.... :slap:

Maybe your just REALLY happy that Intel has something better than AMD. Would that mean that your an Intel "fanboiz"?

~Mike

Oh ya, we Californians has a FOB Governator too. Andy Grove is a FOB. Hector Ruiz is also a FOB. Both NVidia and ATI founders are FOBs too. Welcome to Silicon Valley.

And FYI, brand loyality doesnt correlate with ignorance.

[arisythila]

Oh ya, we Californians has a FOB Governator too. Andy Grove is a FOB. Hector Ruiz is also a FOB. Both NVidia and ATI founders are FOBs too. Welcome to Silicon Valley.

And FYI, brand loyality doesnt correlate with ignorance.


No brand loyality doesnt 'correlate' ignornace, bad engrish does.

Yet, I bet all of them know how to speak engrish better than you.

LOL @ Intel fanboiz :fact:

~Mike

[Absolute_0]

No brand loyality doesnt 'correlate' ignornace, bad engrish does.

Yet, I bet all of them know how to speak engrish better than you.

LOL @ Intel fanboiz :fact:

~Mike

Racism is NOT cool :mad:

And, fanboy is a derogatory term because fanboys often throw logic out the window in favor of personal preference.

[AndrewZorn]

you are wasteful and indulgent...

I'm about the same as you right now at this time though...

and people,. he doesn't exagerate when he sayss that eh is a big time poster, he has over 10k posts...

and for the record, at this time, conroe/allendale is still too expensive for the average user(OEM wise, no overclocking) to truely justify. On that same note, Ax2 3800+ is better when compared to a Pentium D 8/9XX at this time cost/performance wise x2 3800+ beats PD940 in most instances at 30$ less
haha ok so which one are you?
EDIT i just noticed you sold your 165 for a C2D... were you being sarcastic on the wasteful, or what?

why does average user / no overclocking / OEM matter to you? everyone thinks that if you like conroe, that you need to defend intel business. it appears you are a power user, overclocker, and DIY, so i dont even know why you threw that statement out there. not many, if any, XS users check their email on their stock Dell...

and if you want to talk about price/performance
E6300 is only $30 more than 3800+ for HUUUUGE gains.

[ElMoIsEviL]

No brand loyality doesnt 'correlate' ignornace, bad engrish does.

Yet, I bet all of them know how to speak engrish better than you.

LOL @ Intel fanboiz :fact:

~Mike

Fanboyism is wrong. It's a lack of knowledge and a blind love/faith in a certain company believing the company cares about you the individual rather then you the disposable wallet.

Fanboyism is a disease. Why? Because Fanboys, more often then not, know VERY little about the technology behind today's hardware and base all of there arguments on there own personal opinions instead.

Fanboys are dumbasses. And like any ass.. they need a good :slapass: :slap:

[arisythila]

Racism is NOT cool :mad:

And, fanboy is a derogatory term because fanboys often throw logic out the window in favor of personal preference.

Racism? wtf is this , My wife is FOB, nothing wrong with that , Although, SHE strived to learn english, and how to speak is properly. Nothing racist about that.
You dont even know of what decent I am. For all you know I could be making fun of my own "people".

~Mike

[arisythila]

Fanboyism is wrong. It's a lack of knowledge and a blind love/faith in a certain company believing the company cares about you the individual rather then you the disposable wallet.

Fanboyism is a disease. Why? Because Fanboys, more often then not, know VERY little about the technology behind today's hardware and base all of there arguments on there own personal opinions instead.

Fanboys are dumbasses. And like any ass.. they need a good :slapass: :slap:

Nothing wrong with 'fanboyism'. People just perfer some things over to others.. I see alot of people in the intel side of things that have P4's. Why would they have a P4 seriously. WE all know that A64 is faster. You want to know why, Because they just LIKE Intel.. Thats cool with me. I really dont mind if you perfer a brand to another.

I like Levis. Why because they fit me the best. I've tried Wrangler, Chaps, ect ect. Levies treat me right.

I buy AMD because Intel destroyed my company back in 2000. AMD has never done me wrong.

I buy Nissan cars because, My 1998 Mustang, My 1993 Chevy Lumina, My 1996 Mazda RX-7, My Toyota AE86. Have all broken on me with heavy use. My Nissan has never really took a crap on me, and I beat it up on a daily basis. EDIT: I like Infiniti aswell.

I buy Nvidia video cards now, because when I bought my X1900XTX video card It seemed glitchy because of the drivers. (Drivers are not a big deal, but I think I may try them out again depending on what happens)

I buy NEC DVD-Rom's because they are cheap as hell, and work like a champ.

I bought a Watercooling kit form Petra, Because hes part of XS. I believe on helping the little man.

I could really go on, on why I buy from another company over others. We all perfer some different things.. This may help you understand why I am I.

Good luck.

~Mike

Edit: Conroe is fast. Nobody is really denying it. I wish you guys would stop pushing it in our faces.. You know the people that DON'T want to swap.

[vitaminc]

Nothing wrong with 'fanboyism'. People just perfer some things over to others.. I see alot of people in the intel side of things that have P4's. Why would they have a P4 seriously. WE all know that A64 is faster. You want to know why, Because they just LIKE Intel.. Thats cool with me. I really dont mind if you perfer a brand to another.

I like Levis. Why because they fit me the best. I've tried Wrangler, Chaps, ect ect. Levies treat me right.

I buy AMD because Intel destroyed my company back in 2000. AMD has never done me wrong.

I buy Nissan cars because, My 1998 Mustang, My 1993 Chevy Lumina, My 1996 Mazda RX-7, My Toyota AE86. Have all broken on me with heavy use. My Nissan has never really took a crap on me, and I beat it up on a daily basis.

I buy Nvidia video cards now, because when I bought my X1900XTX video card It seemed glitchy because of the drivers. (Drivers are not a big deal, but I think I may try them out again depending on what happens)

I buy NEC DVD-Rom's because they are cheap as hell, and work like a champ.

I bought a Watercooling kit form Petra, Because hes part of XS. I believe on helping the little man.

I could really go on, on why I buy from another company over others. We all perfer some different things.. This may help you understand why I am I.

Good luck.

~Mike

Edit: Conroe is fast. Nobody is really denying it. I wish you guys would stop pushing it in our faces.. You know the people that DON'T want to swap.

You still don't get it, do you? There's a big difference between preferences and ignorances.

Stating that you prefer buying AMD/Intel only is a preference and shows brand loyalty.

Making claims basing on unverified rumors or against/avoiding facts is ignorances, not brand loyalty. And that is what the so-called fanboys do. And let me quote you: Real world says a $600 Conroe is just as good as my $150 OCed AMD.

[AndrewZorn]

Edit: Conroe is fast. Nobody is really denying it. I wish you guys would stop pushing it in our faces.. You know the people that DON'T want to swap.
except the original poster
hence why we are talking about it

and its one thread
no one is forcing you to click on it
shoving it in your faces is very far from replying to a thread that is 3800+ vs E6600

[arisythila]

OP did some bench mark which did not show dramatic differences between the two. But thank god for you guys to correct him..

Brand loyality. I got brand loyality when Intel decided to hike prices on me because i said i was going to give 10% of my business to AMD 90% to Intel.

:banana::banana::banana::banana: intel.. Thats brand loyality for you.

~Mike

[GOATSLAYER]

Flames break out and engulf this thread alive....

[MustardTheoRy]

except the original poster
hence why we are talking about it

and its one thread
no one is forcing you to click on it
shoving it in your faces is very far from replying to a thread that is 3800+ vs E6600

I'd say GHz/Mhz to GHz/Mhz core 2 e6600 is 5 -15% faster in Apps and Games.
Its just the E6600 goes where X2 cant when OCed. XP loads faster and seems snappier with x2.
Then your talking double the processing power which in windows and opening apps like firefox or excel you don't feel.
Vista Im sure will perform much better on C2D then X2.

I have been using Core 2 and using quickpar and winrar definitely better processing

Also I sold my x2 rig with no lcd for $800 and kept a gig of corsair and a HDD. that def offset the cost.

I still dont feel people should be worrying or trying to go broke to upgrade because honeslty it is hardly noticeable unless you have a resource taxing app. But if you have the money and the desire to do it, go ahead

Theres nothing wrong with liking a brand but when you throw out common sense or fact because of it, that's dangerous; hence Fanboy

I've been buying AMD since my last 300Mhz or 333? celeron. Even when I realized P3 and P4 was faster than athlonXP . I promised myself, if Intel ever came out with anything faster I would not hangon because of brand. I was happy with the A64 for what I used it for it was faster than Pentium EE and even happier with X2 A64. Sierra Bound and Coolarer and others got my attention with the potential of this chip.
At the end of the day where all OCers and I got mines ;P. The excitement of reading OCing posts for few weeks, the anticipation of the chip, the spending of money, the building of the system and finally the OC adventure and comparisson has become a ritual.

[ElMoIsEviL]

I'd say GHz/Mhz to GHz/Mhz core 2 e6600 is 5 -15% faster in Apps and Games.
Its just the E6600 goes where X2 cant when OCed. XP loads faster and seems snappier with x2.
Then your talking double the processing power which in windows and opening apps like firefox or excel you don't feel.
Vista Im sure will perform much better on C2D then X2.

I have been using Core 2 and using quickpar and winrar definitely better processing

Also I sold my x2 rig with no lcd for $800 and kept a gig of corsair and a HDD. that def offset the cost.

I still dont feel people should be worrying or trying to go broke to upgrade because honeslty it is hardly noticeable unless you have a resource taxing app. But if you have the money and the desire to do it, go ahead

Theres nothing wrong with liking a brand but when you throw out common sense or fact because of it, that's dangerous; hence Fanboy

I've been buying AMD only since my last 300Mhz or 333? celeron. Even when I realized P3 and P4 was faster than athlonXP . I promised myslef if Intel ever came out with anything faster I would not hangon because of brand. I was happy with the A64 for what i Used it for it was fater than Pentium EE and even happier with X2 A64 but Sierra Bound and coolerer and the others got my attention with the potential of this chip.
At the end of the day where all OCers and I got mines ;P. The excitement of reading OCing posts for few weeks, the anticipation of the chipp the spending of money, the building of the system and finally the OC adventure and Comparisson.

For my useage the better Multi-tasking performance of the Core 2 has been a blessing. It takes much less time to do many things at once. Considering my main rig is used for encoding as well as watching the occasional DVD movies, compressing/decompressing RAR's and fixing RAR's qith QuickPar then yes.. Core 2 has brought a MUCH needed performance boost.

In games, well I run my games at 1440x900 6xAdaptiveAA, 16xHQAF.. so I haven't really noticed my benchmarks going up in games because I'm quite limited by my graphics card... but the minimum FPS is higher thus no slow downs in ANY game I play.

As for the potential of core 2, well once only needs to look at the architectural specs to understand that it is far more advanced then K8. Intel has moved from a 31 stage pipelined architecture (Prescott) to a shorter 14 stage pipeline with the Core 2 architecture. In addition to just reverting to a shorter pipeline, Core 2 processors also have a 33% wider execution, deeper buffers, 4 wide-decode to execute, 4 wide-micro-op execution, micro and macro fusion and enhanced ALU’s for better overall instructions-per-clock performance. Then add to the fact that Core 2 can execute 128bit wide SSE, SSE2, SSE3 intructions in a single clock cycle (vs 2 clock cycles in the past).. this makes the architecture VERY VERY efficient. And then there's Intel's 65nm technology which seems to be top notch... well it adds to the overclocking allure, low energy consumption and lower heat emission of the product.

Also there's the potential of using my i975x based board with a Quad Core Kentsfield Processor in the VERY NEAR future rather then having to wait until the second half of 2007 for AMD to catch up.

Again... why AM2?

Well it seems it has more to do with fanboyism then anything else. People who are fans of AMD are believing in some messiah dubbed K8L. Although this messiah, who has yet to reveal himself, may have the potential to dethrone Core 2.. it won't be out for another year at the very least. Until then AMD fans will have to keep making up gospels and reciting scriptures and praying to there AMD gods.

Make no mistake.. if K8L is faster.. I'm going K8L. But why pay the same or more for an inferior product.. either from Intel or AMD?

That's my question.

[AndrewZorn]

I'd say GHz/Mhz to GHz/Mhz core 2 e6600 is 5 -15% faster in Apps and Games.
Its just the E6600 goes where X2 cant when OCed. XP loads faster and seems snappier with x2.
Then your talking double the processing power which in windows and opening apps like firefox or excel you don't feel.
Vista Im sure will perform much better on C2D then X2.

I have been using Core 2 and using quickpar and winrar definitely better processing

Also I sold my x2 rig with no lcd for $800 and kept a gig of corsair and a HDD. that def offset the cost.

I still dont feel people should be worrying or trying to go broke to upgrade because honeslty it is hardly noticeable unless you have a resource taxing app. But if you have the money and the desire to do it, go ahead

Theres nothing wrong with liking a brand but when you throw out common sense or fact because of it, that's dangerous; hence Fanboy

I've been buying AMD since my last 300Mhz or 333? celeron. Even when I realized P3 and P4 was faster than athlonXP . I promised myself, if Intel ever came out with anything faster I would not hangon because of brand. I was happy with the A64 for what I used it for it was faster than Pentium EE and even happier with X2 A64. Sierra Bound and Coolarer and others got my attention with the potential of this chip.
At the end of the day where all OCers and I got mines ;P. The excitement of reading OCing posts for few weeks, the anticipation of the chip, the spending of money, the building of the system and finally the OC adventure and comparisson has become a ritual.
THANK YOU. Exactly. Everything. Bookmarked as the holy grail of ending the arguments I get into so often over this.
For my useage the better Multi-tasking performance of the Core 2 has been a blessing. It takes much less time to do many things at once. Considering my main rig is used for encoding as well as watching the occasional DVD movies, compressing/decompressing RAR's and fixing RAR's qith QuickPar then yes.. Core 2 has brought a MUCH needed performance boost.

In games, well I run my games at 1440x900 6xAdaptiveAA, 16xHQAF.. so I haven't really noticed my benchmarks going up in games because I'm quite limited by my graphics card... but the minimum FPS is higher thus no slow downs in ANY game I play.

As for the potential of core 2, well once only needs to look at the architectural specs to understand that it is far more advanced then K8. Intel has moved from a 31 stage pipelined architecture (Prescott) to a shorter 14 stage pipeline with the Core 2 architecture. In addition to just reverting to a shorter pipeline, Core 2 processors also have a 33% wider execution, deeper buffers, 4 wide-decode to execute, 4 wide-micro-op execution, micro and macro fusion and enhanced ALU’s for better overall instructions-per-clock performance. Then add to the fact that Core 2 can execute 128bit wide SSE, SSE2, SSE3 intructions in a single clock cycle (vs 2 clock cycles in the past).. this makes the architecture VERY VERY efficient. And then there's Intel's 65nm technology which seems to be top notch... well it adds to the overclocking allure, low energy consumption and lower heat emission of the product.

Also there's the potential of using my i975x based board with a Quad Core Kentsfield Processor in the VERY NEAR future rather then having to wait until the second half of 2007 for AMD to catch up.

Again... why AM2?

Well it seems it has more to do with fanboyism then anything else. People who are fans of AMD are believing in some messiah dubbed K8L. Although this messiah, who has yet to reveal himself, may have the potential to dethrone Core 2.. it won't be out for another year at the very least. Until then AMD fans will have to keep making up gospels and reciting scriptures and praying to there AMD gods.

Make no mistake.. if K8L is faster.. I'm going K8L. But why pay the same or more for an inferior product.. either from Intel or AMD?

That's my question.
Good god. Two of the best posts I've seen concerning the issue, and they're right next to each other. This is what I try to explain to everyone, you just organized it very well.

[gullf1sk]

budget-xtremesystems.org

FUGGER will love it :banana:

Was thinking the same thing. When did this turn in to "buythecheapestsolutionsystems.org"

.. its xtremesystems.org.

The AMDs are blunt blades atm.

[Evilsizer]

Why don't we put it this way. IF it is more than 40% different (transistor design, Double cores do not count) than we will call it a different architecture.
Now K8 going dual cores required NO changes in the individual cores. Only the removal of one of the FSB's and a few Minor Interconnects (accounting for less than 1% of the transistors used by ONE core)
On the Other hand Conroe has a factor of 4 greater number of Transistors than the last P6 design
Going from a "Banis" core to "Allendale/Conroe" is this big huh? Are you counting the L2 transistors or just the core?

[vitaminc]

Again... why AM2?

Well it seems it has more to do with fanboyism then anything else. People who are fans of AMD are believing in some messiah dubbed K8L.

Not really. Single core AM2s are blessings to me, except not from an performance perspective. From my playing around with both AM2 and Conroe (own both), C'n'Q has been much better power saver than EIST speedstep. Although I would agree for people with 939, AM2 is useless up to this point but things will change when 65nm comes. They won't come anywhere near Conroe but should be better price per performance/watt unless AMD plays the farking dumb game of pricing at a premium again.

Lets not go into execution problems after Colonel Sanders left, but that's another story. :p

[xlink]

my conroe upgrade only realy cost me around $100-200 and I end up with a 50$ case(recycled old gateway full tower on my opteron system), a 60$ CPU cooler, and 30$ worth of case fans above what I had before. I'd saythat I made out fairly well, after depreciation(which i skipped because I sold 6 weeks prior to conroe's release and endured through on a PI 233mhz 40mb ram system[until I obtained my backup a64 system from my fatehr's]) I'd be below where I am now.

and FYI, windows boot being slwoer is likely due to the chipset, nf4 has better IDE controllersthan 975X... coiuld be wrong though

also, i think AMD kinda hit a wall with 90nm... 65nm might alleviate this... AMD regains performance/wat crown toodon't care what anyone says, 35W x2 5000+ has better P/W than a 65W e6700

[alayashu]

the 35W X2 3800+ has allready the performance/watt crown. And this is on 90nm. On 65nm probably every AMD chip will have a better p/w index than Conroe.

http://www.lostcircuits.com/cpu/low_e/

[Evilsizer]

also, i think AMD kinda hit a wall with 90nm... 65nm might alleviate this... AMD regains performance/wat crown toodon't care what anyone says, 35W x2 5000+ has better P/W than a 65W e6700
not sure where you pulled 35watts for a x2 5000+ from.

"AMD ATHLON 64 X2 5000+ PROCESSOR TECH SPECS:
Frequency / Cache Sizes: 2.6GHz w/ 512KB L2 cache-per-core (1MB total L2 per processor)
L1 Cache Sizes: 64K- L1 instruction + 64K - L1 data cache per core (256KB total L1)

CPU to Memory Controller: same as CPU core frequencies
Memory Controller: Shared integrated 128-bit wide memory controller
DDR2 Memory Supported: Up to and including PC2 6400 (800MHz) DDR-2 memory
HyperTransport Links: 1
HyperTransport Spec: 2GHz (2x 1000MHz / DDR)
Effective data bandwidth: 20.8 GB/sec [8GB/sec HyperTransport link + 12.8GB/sec memory]
Packaging: Socket AM2 organic micro-PGA
Fab location: AMD's Fab 30 wafer fabrication facility in Dresden, Germany
Process Technology: 90nm (.09-micron) Silicon on Insulator (SOI)
Approximate Transistor count: 153.8 million
Approximate Die Size: 183mm2
Nominal Voltage: 1.30-1.35V
Max Thermal Power: 89 W
Max Ambient Case Temp: 55-70 degrees Celsius
Max Icc (processor current): 66.2A
Min P-State (with C'n'Q) 1.0 GHz

* Nominal Voltage @ min -state: 1.1V
* Max Thermal Power @ min -state: 31.0W
* Max Icc @ min -state: 25.5A



The X2 5000+ comes in at 2.6GHz matching the clock of the X2 4800+, and it has the same double 512kb L2 cache. Max thermal power comes in at 89. Voltages range from 1.3V to 1.35V. The die size comes in at 183mm2 which fits 153.8 million transistors at the 90nm process."

pulled from here
http://www.amdzone.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=256&page=1

might want to get things staight first before posting a max thermal spec which is really the min thermal spec. im sure the conroe would do the same with 1v @1ghz to or even lower. We dont see those numbers in intels sheets.

[vitaminc]

the 35W X2 3800+ has allready the performance/watt crown. And this is on 90nm. On 65nm probably every AMD chip will have a better p/w index than Conroe.

http://www.lostcircuits.com/cpu/low_e/

Except the 35W X2 3800+ isn't widely available. Actually its in extremely limited quantities. :p

AMD won't even remotely touch Intel for P/W index if you bring in Merom parts, which are basically the same thing as Conroe with FSB 3x instead of 4x.

And lets not bring in the ultra low voltage Meroms (5W TDP).

The only reason AMD's desktop parts consume less power is because EIST is not working properly while C'n'Q are working fine. Most tests have shown that EIST made no difference to system power consumption. Something is definitely wrong there.

Xlink, there is no 35W 5000+ X2. And all 65nm parts will be 65W TDP, so it's not helping much.

[alayashu]

Except the 35W X2 3800+ isn't widely available. Actually its in extremely limited quantities. :p

does that changes the performance/watt crown owner? :rolleyes:

AMD won't even remotely touch Intel for P/W index if you bring in Merom parts, which are basically the same thing as Conroe with FSB 3x instead of 4x.
And lets not bring in the ultra low voltage Meroms (5W TDP).


Memron would compete with the TurionX2 and not the desktop A64s, and are these available on the market now? Soon after they'll come out the 65nm AMD chips will arrive and probably no mobile chip will be able to compete with those in the perf/watt area.

The only reason AMD's desktop parts consume less power is because EIST is not working properly while C'n'Q are working fine. Most tests have shown that EIST made no difference to system power consumption. Something is definitely wrong there.

the desktop Conroes consume a lot more even in load than the desktop 35W TDP X2 3800+ (wich consumes ~25W in full). And in idle nothing gets even close to the 8W power consumption of this baby.

[arisythila]

Memron would compete with the TurionX2 and not the desktop A64s, and are these available on the market now? Soon after they'll come out the 65nm AMD chips will arrive and probably no mobile chip will be able to compete with those in the perf/watt area.

Turion X2 is out in Japan right now... Pretty avaliable.

~Mike

[ElMoIsEviL]

Turion X2 is out in Japan right now... Pretty avaliable.

~Mike
It's slower per MHz then Intel Core Duo and takes up more power (close to twice the battery time when running a Core Duo instead of an X2 Turion)..:p

It's been tested on Tom's Hardware (http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/08/22/amd_dual_core_laptops_have_arrived/).

[arisythila]

I dont know about any of that, just that its out in japan right now.

~Mike

[ElMoIsEviL]

I dont know about any of that, just that its out in japan right now.

~Mike
It's a nice processor though.. the platform is just weak. Probably why AMD bought out ATi.

[dissident]

upgrading was worth it, if you did it before AMD's price drops, but now if you already own a dual core AMD system that's overclocked you probably don't need to upgrade... if you own an old system and are looking to upgrade, I'd say core 2 duo is the way to go. You can get an E6300, Gigabyte DS3, and some G.SKILL HZ ram and overclock it to 3 GHZ and blow an AMD system away. You don't need any more then an E6400 to max out these chips.. the motherboards are more then capable of taking the FSB up to 450.

Nothing is going to touch core 2 duo's pure peformance for at least 1 year, except of course their quad core offerings.

This is not a bash on AMD, it just is what it is. AMDs are still great systems.. I sold my dual core opteron system I built earlier this spring to my mother for only a small loss. It's just as snappy in windows. The only area you notice the difference are things like unzipping, and CPU intensive games like Oblivion.

[Mats]

Memron would compete with the TurionX2 and not the desktop A64s, and are these available on the market now? Soon after they'll come out the 65nm AMD chips will arrive and probably no mobile chip will be able to compete with those in the perf/watt area.
If you're comparing a factory undervolted X2 with a standard Conroe, why can't you compare a low power Merom to the same X2? They're all available here in Europe, the only thing that's missing is a T64 X2 mobo. There's no reason to get a T64 for desktop, especially since you can buy a 35 W X2 instead. Merom is faster than X2 clock for clock, and it's also using just as little power as a Yonah, and it costs less than a 35 W X2 (a 35 W X2 cost 20 % more than a T7200 here, and twice as much as a E6300), although the mobos cost more.

So what does this mean? Well, if you're into Merom or a 35 W X2 you're not going to do some massive overclocking anyway. You're looking for a low power system. So which is the better one for this task? I'd say Merom, because you can buy mobos with mobile chipsets for it, making it even more low power.

[vitaminc]

does that changes the performance/watt crown owner? :rolleyes:

Not really. Ever heard of mobile on desktop?


Memron would compete with the TurionX2 and not the desktop A64s, and are these available on the market now? Soon after they'll come out the 65nm AMD chips will arrive and probably no mobile chip will be able to compete with those in the perf/watt area.

There is a very good reason that AMD is using a seperate design team for its mobile CPU - its mobile offerings sucked.

the desktop Conroes consume a lot more even in load than the desktop 35W TDP X2 3800+ (wich consumes ~25W in full). And in idle nothing gets even close to the 8W power consumption of this baby.

No one cares about CPU power consumption when they are building low power system. System power is what matters. And btw, similar Conroe system is really close in power consumption compare to EE SFF ones, and as I said before, should even be a bigger power saver if they fix EIST.

[breakfromyou]

the turion X2 is available in the US...the circuit city near my dads house has 1 intel core solo motherboard and everything else has a turion X2...