P5W - FSB Wall testing and conclusion

[simonmaltby]

FSB WALL TESTING RESULTS AND A CONCLUSION

I did some work last night regarding FSB wall on this board....

P5W DH deluxe with Bios 1101
E6700 OEM Step 6 B2
2GB OCZ 6400 Plat 4,5,4,15

Results:
I have been having real issues at 380FSB and Above. I tried out an E6600 and that worked up to 400FSB, but no higher.

Another post of the foum put me onto crystal http://crystalmark.info/download/index-e.html which lets you change the multi in windows on this board.

So I tried the E6700 at 9x and 8x to see what happened.
The only Bios setting that helped at all was to set the ram to SPD - no voltage changes let me go higher than 379FSB. With SPD on i could do 410FSB before it would go no further. I should point out that SPD sets my ram at 5,6,6,20 - miles out from what it should be.... this got me thinking...

Next I booted with SPD settings and used memset http://rv.page.cegetel.net.perso.cegetel.net/MemSet.zip to see all the ram settings. I took a screen shot and saved the memset settings.

Then I rebooted changing back to manual RAM settings in the bios 4,4,5,15

When in windows I opened memset and changed all the settings apart from 4,4,5,15 to be the same as the screen shot at SPD.

I was then able to go right up to 440FSB before i suffered any issues.

Summary:
1. FSB Wall at 380FSB with manual Ram settings in Bios
2. FSB Wall at 400FSB with SPD ram settings in Bios
3. FSB Wall at 440FSB with manual Ram settings in Bios but changed to match SPD in windows with memset.

Conclusion:
Asus need to provide access to far more RAM settings in the Bios. This might well be the cause of the FSB wall and would explain why different people get the wall at different points... down to when the RAM fails due to its settings.
Wonder uis Asus read this forum... maybe a bios with access to all ram and some multi adjustment like the Gigabyte boards would be good.

[eva2000]

interesting got memtest screenies for those 3 scenarios ? :)

[simonmaltby]

interesting got memtest screenies for those 3 scenarios ? :)

here is the memset (yes i know its the old version) screen shot i took at SPD
http://www.motormice.com/_images/smd-memset.JPG

And here are the memory settings when set manually in the bios at 4,5,4,15
http://www.motormice.com/_images/memset-manual.JPG

the change i make is to change all settings from tRFC downwards to match the first pic.

Sometimes the bottom three settings vary on boot without changing anything else. Also slight FSB changes in the bios change the tRFC and down, sometimes dramatically. I did have tRFC at 13 after one boot eeek

[eva2000]

hmmm sounds like maybe tRFC or tRD related.. try only loosening these 2 values and see how far fsb go :)

this was all tested with maxed MCH volts right of 1.65v ?

[eva2000]

thank you so much seems your findings seem to apply to my Intel D975XBX Badaxe too! i loosened tRFC and tRD from 35/6 to 40/7 and went from 433fsb max fsb to now benching at 440fsb on 1067fsb strap (will try higher later :) )

http://fileshosts.com/intel/Intel975x/975xbx_results/E66001_typhoon/81cfm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2HZ/17_18/1334/8x/533/440-440-4438_1.44-max-2.2/superpi-32m_single_14min22s547ms_tn.png (http://fileshosts.com/intel/Intel975x/975xbx_results/E66001_typhoon/81cfm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2HZ/17_18/1334/8x/533/440-440-4438_1.44-max-2.2/superpi-32m_single_14min22s547ms.png)

Maybe all motherboard manufacturers need to do is open their bioses to the other memory timing options that memset has available so we can further fine tune how high the fsb can go ? :)

[Lestat]

do those two values effect real world memory performance ? or is it one of those settings that really only effects stability ?

hhmm odd i do not have tRD on my 965 chipset with the memset i use ? hhmm

[Durzel]

I would've thought it would have an effect on performance, but apparently memory timings are less relevant to Conroe than they were with other CPUs so I doubt changing those "extra settings" will make a huge difference.

[eva2000]

they do effect super pi times if that's what you mean :)

[Lestat]

ok using th elatest memset
wow my tRFC is 0 by default! maybe that can explain why i can not make my memory run 925+ stable.
still can not find tRD, hhmm

*edit*

nope that dont work lol

hhmm something odd with this DS3 and ES chip and this Ram
8x multi 950+mhz 4-5-4-12 ram = 32m stable but can not do 1000
9x multi 925mhz 4-5-4-12 ram = no good.

8x multi 950 i think is ok for 4-4-4-12 ill check my screenshots see if it worked.

so what is the max bootable from the bios you guys can do.? best i can do from my DS3 is 400mhz 1:1 4-4-4-12. w/ 2.0v on ram. have not tried 1.9v 2.1 2.2 2.3 and 2.4v on the ram does not matter.
infact 2.4v wont even POST.

hey eva. my HZ's are 0631 these should be D9's yes ? they sure dont act like it. but again. you said before you think maybe my mobo is bad for high dram freq. i believe that is probably correct.

[i found nemo]

do 900 4-4-4-12. that should be stable and still give good b/w. or maybe you can tighten some timings since ram freq would be lower. keep it efficient ya know?

[eva2000]

yeah 0631 should be micron d9s mine are 0629s

i'm trying to tighten the timings down to see how tight i can do at 438-440fsb heh. I noticed one thing if i have memset open there's instability in benching/testing stability. Close memset after making your changes, and more stable :)

have you tried remounting chipset heatsink again.. my 1st mount i dropped to max 432mhz 4-4-3-8 at 2.2v on my ram, 2nd remount better contact and manage 488mhz 4-4-3-5 at 2.2v!

[Lestat]

my chipset never gets above 38c. i have a 40mm fan on it.
plus this DS3 uses pushpins to hold the chipset in i would have to pull the board out ot do that. and eww alot of work lol.

900 4-4-4-12 is impossible on 9x multi. its not stable enough i think.
8x multi yes. but the FSB of 450 is not bootable from the bios.

this board is quirky for sure. im hoping gigabyte will be able ti fix the little quirks.
but i am not complaining at all $145 very well spent. i can still overclock higher than i did with 2 different p5w dh boards lol.
and i can not do tighter @ 800mhz 2.0 2.1 or 2.2v the system wont boot. 4-3-4 or 4-3-3 nothing works.

[eva2000]

yeah when first got badaxe my PC6400PHU2 HZ wouldn't even boot at 400mhz 4-3-3-12 at 2.2v but after remounting chipset block can do 400mhz 4-3-3-8 at 2.2v now :D

[Extera]

got the FSB up from 420 tot 433, still need to try the last method of matching de SPD timings using memset. Thanks for this info!

[Lestat]

yeah when first got badaxe my PC6400PHU2 HZ wouldn't even boot at 400mhz 4-3-3-12 at 2.2v but after remounting chipset block can do 400mhz 4-3-3-8 at 2.2v now :D

was your chipset getting too hot though ? or did you remount it to try and make it run cooler ? meaning, were the temps ok already and you just remounted it just because.?
i also have a 80mm fan blowing on the ram, and also another blowing on the entire PWM area.

maybe ill pull it out later and try it. right now i am doing Laundry hehehe.

[Shpoon]

Interesting...

So, if you take the SPD settings (other than timings), and tweak the timings (tighten them up) are you still able to acheive this higher FSB, or does it start to fail again?

[FELIX]

->Lestat:You say that your tRFC is 0,is your others values are correctes?

[eva2000]

was your chipset getting too hot though ? or did you remount it to try and make it run cooler ? meaning, were the temps ok already and you just remounted it just because.?
i also have a 80mm fan blowing on the ram, and also another blowing on the entire PWM area.

maybe ill pull it out later and try it. right now i am doing Laundry hehehe.
my chipset was cool as a cucumber even passively.. but seems remounts or getting the right mount helps as 432mhz to 488mhz is a huge diff!

Decided to see how far i can tighten the additional timings knowing the effects tRD has on higher fsb.

Software used: Systool dual 32M Pi tests as 99.99% of time if you can pass dual Systool 32M pi you can pass Super Pi 32M.

Using the memset values for the following:

tRFC | tRD | Write to Precharge Command | Write to Read Command | Read-Write Turnaround clocks | Write-Read Turnaround clocks | tRTP

Managed to pass with following settings:

440fsb = 40 | 7 | 12 | 10 | 8 | 5 | 4
438fsb = 36 | 7 | 12 | 9 | 8 | 5 | 4
438fsb = 35 | 7 | 12 | 10 | 8 | 5 | 4
438fsb = 34 | 7 | 12 | 11 | 8 | 5 | 4
438fsb = 33 | 7 | 12 | 11 | 8 | 5 | 4
438fsb = 32 | 7 | 12 | 11 | 9 | 5 | 4
438fsb = 30 | 7 | 12 | 11 | 9 | 5 | 4
438fsb = 28 | 7 | 12 | 11 | 9 | 5 | 4


@438fsb = 28 | 7 | 12 | 11 | 9 | 5 | 4
http://fileshosts.com/intel/Intel975x/975xbx_results/E66001_typhoon/81cfm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2HZ/17_18/1334/8x/533/438-438-4438_1.44-max-2.2/superpi-32m_single_14min27s516ms_trfc28_tn.png (http://fileshosts.com/intel/Intel975x/975xbx_results/E66001_typhoon/81cfm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2HZ/17_18/1334/8x/533/438-438-4438_1.44-max-2.2/superpi-32m_single_14min27s516ms_trfc28.png)

@438fsb = 36 | 7 | 12 | 9 | 8 | 5 | 4
http://fileshosts.com/intel/Intel975x/975xbx_results/E66001_typhoon/81cfm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2HZ/17_18/1334/8x/533/438-438-4438_1.44-max-2.2/superpi-32m_single_14min26s297ms_trfc36_tn.png (http://fileshosts.com/intel/Intel975x/975xbx_results/E66001_typhoon/81cfm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2HZ/17_18/1334/8x/533/438-438-4438_1.44-max-2.2/superpi-32m_single_14min26s297ms_trfc36.png)

[Lestat]

->Lestat:You say that your tRFC is 0,is your others values are correctes?

since i have updated to the new version it does not show 0.
yeah everything else is ok i think but how can we tell ? ther eisnt anything else that can read the settings is there?

Felix where is the tRD for the 965 chipset ? or the DS3 mobo ?

here are some pictures be sure to look at the description for each one.

PICTURE 3
Here is my Bios. what do you guys recommend for these settings ? i only ask cuz the names used in the DS3 are different
PICTURE 1
this is memset showing the manual settings plus all the other ones
PICTURE 2
This is memset showing the settings for AUTO SPD

[FELIX]

-I don't find tRD in 965 datasheet,it's probably exist,but I don't know where.

-ACT to ACT delay->Act. to Act. delayed (tRRD)
-rank Write to Read Delay->Write to Read Delayed
-Refresh to ACT Delay->Refresh cycle time (tRFC)

[Lestat]

Felix any chance of giving them proper names so stupid people like me understand what they are lol ?

[Cocacola]

so the problem that P5wdh can not do high FSB only because RAM timings stuff?
if so im sure someday with right bios it will rocks.. LOL

[eva2000]

so the problem that P5wdh can not do high FSB only because RAM timings stuff?
if so im sure someday with right bios it will rocks.. LOL
if that's the case maybe higher vdimm + higher mch volts = higher fsb too ?

also would explain why some memory can take your board's max fsb higher than other memory i.e. PC5400UL micron fat body d9s seem to take my fsb higher than the newer micron D9GMH where fsb limit is an issue

[eva2000]

thank you simonmaltby.. you've given me an extra 56-62mhz on my E6600 cpu :D

Well so far 3954mhz is max 32M.

Here's the break down of results for max 32M

@3898mhz - 9x433fsb max
with tRD at board default 6
http://fileshosts.com/intel/Intel975x/975xbx_results/E66001_typhoon/81cfm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2HZ/17_18/1334/9x/1067fsb/533/hydrocool200ex/433-433-4438_1.55-maxed-2.2/superpi-32m_single_tn.png (http://fileshosts.com/intel/Intel975x/975xbx_results/E66001_typhoon/81cfm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2HZ/17_18/1334/9x/1067fsb/533/hydrocool200ex/433-433-4438_1.55-maxed-2.2/superpi-32m_single.png)

@3934mhz - 9x437fsb
@tRD of 7 with tRFC 28 and looser additional timings
http://fileshosts.com/intel/Intel975x/975xbx_results/E66001_typhoon/81cfm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2HZ/17_18/1334/9x/1067fsb/533/hydrocool200ex/437-437-4438_1.55-maxed-2.2/tweaked/superpi-32m_single_13m11s422ms_tRD7t_RFC28_tn.png (http://fileshosts.com/intel/Intel975x/975xbx_results/E66001_typhoon/81cfm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2HZ/17_18/1334/9x/1067fsb/533/hydrocool200ex/437-437-4438_1.55-maxed-2.2/tweaked/superpi-32m_single_13m11s422ms_tRD7t_RFC28.png)

@3934mhz - 9x437fsb
@tRD of 7 with tRFC 32 and tighter additional timings
http://fileshosts.com/intel/Intel975x/975xbx_results/E66001_typhoon/81cfm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2HZ/17_18/1334/9x/1067fsb/533/hydrocool200ex/437-437-4438_1.55-maxed-2.2/tweaked/superpi-32m_single_13m09s688ms_tRD7t_RFC32_11_9_tn.png (http://fileshosts.com/intel/Intel975x/975xbx_results/E66001_typhoon/81cfm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2HZ/17_18/1334/9x/1067fsb/533/hydrocool200ex/437-437-4438_1.55-maxed-2.2/tweaked/superpi-32m_single_13m09s688ms_tRD7t_RFC32_11_9.png)

@3954mhz - 9x439fsb
@tRD of 7 with tRFC 36 and additional timings needed for 439fsb
http://fileshosts.com/intel/Intel975x/975xbx_results/E66001_typhoon/81cfm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2HZ/17_18/1334/9x/1067fsb/533/hydrocool200ex/439-439-4438_1.55-maxed-2.2/tweaked/superpi-32m_single_13m08s766ms_trfc36_trd7_12_10_tn.png (http://fileshosts.com/intel/Intel975x/975xbx_results/E66001_typhoon/81cfm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2HZ/17_18/1334/9x/1067fsb/533/hydrocool200ex/439-439-4438_1.55-maxed-2.2/tweaked/superpi-32m_single_13m08s766ms_trfc36_trd7_12_10.png)

Couldn't get 32M @440fsb for now probably more tweaking needed or more vcore/mch volts.

But here's 8M
http://fileshosts.com/intel/Intel975x/975xbx_results/E66001_typhoon/81cfm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2HZ/17_18/1334/9x/1067fsb/533/hydrocool200ex/440-440-4435_1.55-maxed-2.2/superpi-8m_single_2min44s984ms_tn.png (http://fileshosts.com/intel/Intel975x/975xbx_results/E66001_typhoon/81cfm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2HZ/17_18/1334/9x/1067fsb/533/hydrocool200ex/440-440-4435_1.55-maxed-2.2/superpi-8m_single_2min44s984ms.png)

All 32M times run from same session of windows, so probably not optimal for fastest times yet :)

[mackanz]

What speed did you boot at Eva?

[eva2000]

I'm on Intel D975XBX bad axe (no volt mods) max in bios is +50% on 1067fsb strap = boot at 9x400fsb and use clockgen to go higher heh

[mackanz]

Getting hard freeze at 420 with clockgen. Gotta try from 400 and see how high it will go.

[Counter CS]

I'm on Intel D975XBX bad axe (no volt mods) max in bios is +50% on 1067fsb strap = boot at 9x400fsb and use clockgen to go higher heh
Could it be BUS Speed limited to 1600Mhz ?
I see many people have a limit reached at 8x400 or 9x400Mhz BIOS limited, then to go higher you need some tweaks :confused:

Someone can confirm that ?

[eva2000]

nah it's all in the MCH it seems for 975x chipsets, 3 ways for higher fsb

1. more mch volts
2. loosening timings such as tRD and tRFC
3. better mch/nb cooling

MCH = memory controller hub

Explains why certain memory can take fsb higher on my bad axes i.e. 2x512MB Corsair PC5400ULv1.5 took me to max 421-423fsb on my 1st bad axe while 2x512MB OCZ PC5400 Plat XTC 3-3-3-8 only took me to max 378fsb. Different memory will handle tRD and tRFC values differently effecting max fsb ?

so makes sense really

[Counter CS]

Can someone talk to Asus guys to modify those BIOS to let us change those timings ?

[eva2000]

already forwarded the info on to my Asus contact.. my P5W DH arrived today as well

these memset options really do make a diff for dual stressprime testing and other stability tests!

[Wrangler88]

now when u change the settings in memset and reboot, are those settings saved or do u have to be able to get into windows, change in memset and then its stable?

[eva2000]

each windows session needs memset set again

[fhpchris]

do those two values effect real world memory performance ? or is it one of those settings that really only effects stability ?

hhmm odd i do not have tRD on my 965 chipset with the memset i use ? hhmm

Yes, those settings DO change performance, and tRFC of 40 is HIGH!

You should run subtimings closer to these, ignore speed as my T2600 walls here.

Http://www.sspmustang.com/ot/ram-run6.jpg

[Brahmzy]

Kind of a pain to have to reset memset every reboot on my daily box. Hmmmmmmmm.

[CrazyJohn]

i've done what's described in the 1st post and lost ~200MB/s in Goldmem...

but this suggests that bios timings are tight and if loosen better o/c can be done...

for Asus/Intel users:
can u manually set bootstrap? on DS3 there is no such option, nor to check it...

and about mem timings @ the same frequency, read this:
http://www.bleedinedge.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22297
basically - lower the fsb and higher the multiplier and you'll get better (tighter?) timings as the NB itself is working in a different mode than with high fsb

[Plaicd]

for Asus/Intel users:
can u manually set bootstrap? in DS3 there is no such option, nor to check it...


Not on Asus P5W-dh

[CrazyJohn]

so i have just tested and nothing...
rock stable @ 400Mhz... boots at 415 - and this is the last reasonable fsb to check, rest is not stable at all...

[Pjoeloe]

Kind of a pain to have to reset memset every reboot on my daily box. Hmmmmmmmm.
well , this prog isn`t created for 24/7 day use I gues. You can see what is limiting your mhz wall with this: the board ( bios :p: ) , the memory or the cpu, so, pretty usefull I think.

[syne_24]

It didnt do nothing for me either. Still a wall at ~420 :(

[Shark-357]

Its quite interesting i can do 7x460@1.75V VMCH but cant pass 9x423 even @1.85V VMCH.....

[Brahmzy]

Somethin' 'bout that 9x multi, eh?

[Pjoeloe]

Its quite interesting i can do 7x460@1.75V VMCH but cant pass 9x423 even @1.85V VMCH.....
Hmm, maybe the 9 x multiplyer is a little buggy in the C1 stepping of the p965 chipset for retail conroes "the C-2 Stepping is suppose to fix some FSB issues as well as some more optimizations on Intel's Fast Memory Architecture. Unfortunately C-2 Stepping P965 boards will not come till Sept. 9, 2006 "

this explains things in the Anand roundup, the 965s couldn't reach as high as the more mature 975 boards. Sounds logical because the ES samples were their, and with those chips the p965 C1 chipset is made.

Shark, did you do what`s on page one , first post ? did it help for your "9" multiplyer fsb ? 9 x 423 = 3807 mhz, maybe it`s the limit of your cpu :D

[Tony]

So now we have bios tweaking strap settings and also setting timings to tight for the ram to clock unless you have old fatty D9 which can stand it tight...ohh man there is no way we will win.

Im just anoyed i did not notice this sooner, so thanks for posting the info as this opens up the argument for us...we need fully opened up bios files to stand a chance of the boards clocking like they should.

[eva2000]

yup Asus already opened up P5B Deluxe bios AFAIK, waiting on P5W DH and D975XBX Badaxe bioses hehe

[Pjoeloe]

yup Asus already opened up P5B Deluxe bios AFAIK, waiting on P5W DH and D975XBX Badaxe bioses hehe
what`s your source besides that your board may be a nice overclocker ?

[eva2000]

what you do you mean i just forwarded the info from this thread to Asus and Intel contacts and now you see P5B Deluxe with new bios with all additional timings shown...

so logical assumption is sooner or later P5W DH and D975XBX bioses would be coming out following suit :)

[Danger30Q]

The fact that more BIOS options are available in the P5B Deluxe is promising for availability in a new P5W DH BIOS.

I love having the higher FSB on the P5B Deluxe but I absolutely need the Crossfire ability of the P5W DH for gaming. If only they could make a mix of the 2 boards....

All I hope for is new mem settings available in new P5W DH BIOS.

[aggybong]

I just tried this on my P5B-D and nothing changed :( I was so hopeful!

[Pjoeloe]

what you do you mean i just forwarded the info from this thread to Asus and Intel contacts and now you see P5B Deluxe with new bios with all additional timings shown...

Can you use the bios from the deluxe for the non deluxe? If not, can you mail asus and intel and ask if they want to do the same for the non deluxe ? I wanna try that board :D . Thanks

[eva2000]

Can you use the bios from the deluxe for the non deluxe? If not, can you mail asus and intel and ask if they want to do the same for the non deluxe ? I wanna try that board :D . Thanks
don't think you can use deluxe bios on non-deluxe they're different chipsets heh

the info has been passed onto intel and asus so it's waiting game :)

[lopri]

Eva, do you know what's the difference between "Auto","Standard", and "Turbo" in P5W-DH BIOS? For some reason my setup is most stable on "Turbo" and my board boots with tRD=5 no matter what FSB I'm on. (also regardless of Auto/Standard/Turbo) :confused:

[lopri]

Also, how is this board dividing PCI-E lanes between the 2 PEGs? Is there a performance penalty using the black PEG instead of the orange one? For single card setup, if the black PEG has full X16 bandwidth and there is little to no performance loss, I'd rather use the black slot for better cooling. Can't find any info on this.

Any input would be appreciated.

[eva2000]

interesting Standard for me tRD = 6.. so maybe Turbo is tRD = 5 ??? i've been trying to achive tRD = 5 at >400fsb no go though heh

No idea re: PCI-E slots heh

Now that i have P5W DH can do some more related testings and can confirm simonmaltby's findings .. yet again :)



Max FSB Results:

Now the fun part, finding the max fsb this P5W DH is capable of :) With FSB volts at 1.3v and MCH volts at 1.65v for now I managed being able to boot from bios at 9x442fsb = 3978Mhz at 1.54-1.55v.

I tried 9x444fsb but not able to boot up. Whether that's a fsb limit of cpu/vcore/cooling limited not sure - will investigate later :D

9X442fsb = 3978Mhz

CPUZ Validation:
http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=114677

click on image for full screenie
http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/P5WDH/results/E6600_1/swiftechg4storm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2/21_22/801/533/442-442-44412-4_1.5625-1.3-1.65-2.2/superpi-2m_single_tn.png (http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/P5WDH/results/E6600_1/swiftechg4storm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2/21_22/801/533/442-442-44412-4_1.5625-1.3-1.65-2.2/superpi-2m_single.png)

Next I'd drop the cpu multiplier using Crystalmarkcpuid for 8x and see how high I can take the fsb still with MCH volts at 1.65v.

To test max fsb, I decided to boot into windows from bios at 9x440fsb = 3960mhz at 1.575v vcore bios (1.54-1.57v windows load-idle) and then using Crystalmarkcpuid to drop from 9x to 8x cpu multiplier for tests.

I used only Systool dual 32M PI (cpu test) and Super Pi v1.50 single and dual 32M tests to test max fsb.

Bios Settings:

vdimm = 2.2v
vFSB = 1.3v
vMCH = 1.65v
vICH = AUTO
Performance mode = AUTO
Hyperpath3 = Disabled

@8x440fsb = 3522mhz 1:1 memory @440mhz 4-4-4-12 4
I managed to pass single 32M Super Pi but one core failed dual 32M Super Pi with vMCH of 1.65v.

Super Pi v1.50
single 32M = 14min 14.703s (http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/P5WDH/results/E6600_1/swiftechg4storm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2/21_22/801/533/8x/533/440-440-44412-4_1.575-1.3-1.65-2.2/superpi-32m_single.png)
dual 32M = core 1 failed at 17th iteration (http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/P5WDH/results/E6600_1/swiftechg4storm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2/21_22/801/533/8x/533/440-440-44412-4_1.575-1.3-1.65-2.2/superpi-32m_err.png)

Increased vMCH to 1.75v in bios and 8x440fsb dual 32M Super Pi completed with no problems.

click image to see full screenshot
http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/P5WDH/results/E6600_1/swiftechg4storm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2/21_22/801/533/8x/533/440-440-44412-4_1.575-1.3-1.75-2.2/superpi-32m_tn.png (http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/P5WDH/results/E6600_1/swiftechg4storm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2/21_22/801/533/8x/533/440-440-44412-4_1.575-1.3-1.75-2.2/superpi-32m.png)

How far can we take fsb with vMCH 1.75v ? Seems 447fsb was only good enough for single 32M Super Pi, as dual 32M failed. So dropped back to 445fsb which passed fine.

@8x447fsb = 3576mhz 1:1 memory @447mhz 4-4-4-12 4
I managed to pass single 32M Super Pi but one core failed dual 32M Super Pi at 19th iteration on core #2 with vMCH of 1.75v.

Super Pi v1.50
single 32M = 14min 04.844s (http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/P5WDH/results/E6600_1/swiftechg4storm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2/21_22/801/533/8x/533/447-447-44412-4_1.575-1.3-1.75-2.2/superpi-32m_single_14min04s844ms.png)
dual 32M = core 2 failed at 19th iteration (http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/P5WDH/results/E6600_1/swiftechg4storm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2/21_22/801/533/8x/533/447-447-44412-4_1.575-1.3-1.75-2.2/superpi-32m_err.png)

@8x445fsb = 3561mhz 1:1 memory @445mhz 4-4-4-12 4

Super Pi v1.50
single 32M = 14min 09.438s (http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/P5WDH/results/E6600_1/swiftechg4storm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2/21_22/801/533/8x/533/445-445-44412-4_1.575-1.3-1.75-2.2/superpi-32m_single_14min09s438ms.png)
dual 32M = 15min 48.875s / 15min 46.640s (http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/P5WDH/results/E6600_1/swiftechg4storm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2/21_22/801/533/8x/533/445-445-44412-4_1.575-1.3-1.75-2.2/superpi-32m.png)

http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/P5WDH/results/E6600_1/swiftechg4storm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2/21_22/801/533/8x/533/445-445-44412-4_1.575-1.3-1.75-2.2/superpi-32m_tn.png (http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/P5WDH/results/E6600_1/swiftechg4storm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2/21_22/801/533/8x/533/445-445-44412-4_1.575-1.3-1.75-2.2/superpi-32m.png)


Summary of max FSB tests:

Right now it looks like for stock heatpipe cooling on MCH/NB:

vMCH = max fsb
1.65v = ~438fsb
1,75v = ~445fsb
1.85v = not tested yet

I guess the default chipset latencies are very tight and the factor of adequate MCH/NB cooling come into play. FCG's FSB scaling report at http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=105940 refers to better cooled MCH with MCH volt modded AFAIK. Also, I have yet to test simonmaltby's fsb scaling frequency tests in relation to memory timing options for tRD and tRFC http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=111400.


Analysis of P5W DH memory 4:5 and 2:3 dividers

I've been messing around with 4:5 and 2:3 dividers are lower FSB clocks and checking memset to see what values are being set since i'd having issues in memtest86+ v1.65 test #7 errors in high fsb 4:5 mode.

In 2:3 I maxed out my memory @542mhz 4-4-4-12 at 2.4v which showed the following memset timing values

http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/P5WDH/results/E6600_1/swiftechg4storm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2/19_20/0801/9x/800/361-542-44412-4_1.4-1.3-1.65-2.4_std/superpi-32m_single_15min03s859ms_tn.png (http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/P5WDH/results/E6600_1/swiftechg4storm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2/19_20/0801/9x/800/361-542-44412-4_1.4-1.3-1.65-2.4_std/superpi-32m_single_15min03s859ms.png)

tRFC = 42
tRD = 6
Write to Precharge Cmd = 13
Write to Read Cmd = 10
Read-Write Turnaround CLKs = 8
Write-Read Turnaround CLKs = 6
tRTP = 5

Now in 4:5 mode the only changes in memset are for:

tRFC = 35
Write to Precharge Cmd = 12

As you see it's tighter than at 2:3 set memset timings. So I booted into windows from bios at 9x378fsb 4:5 with memory at 472.5mhz 4-4-4-12 at 2.3v and used clockgen to clock up incrementally to test the max FSB:MEM clocks and find out how loosening these memset options will effect max 4:5 FSB:MEM clocks.

Results:
Using Systool dual 32M PI (cpu test), I managed to use Clockgen to raise FSB from 378fsb to 394fsb (493mhz 4-4-4-12 for memory) before it started to fail/error out. This was still with default memset timings where tRD = 6. I then raised tRD from 6 to 7, and easily managed to raise FSB from 394fsb to 400fsb (500mhz 4-4-4-12 for memory) and pass the tests without errors!

With tRD = 7, i could even tighten tRFC from 35 down to 20 with no problems.

@3600Mhz - 9x400fsb 4:5 500mhz 4-4-4-8 at 2.3v (more vdimm allows to handle tigher tRFC values but tRD needed 7)
http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/P5WDH/results/E6600_1/swiftechg4storm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2/19_20/0801/9x/667/400-500-44412-4_1.45-1.3-1.65-2.3_std/memset/superpi-32m_single_13min56s422ms_tn.png (http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/P5WDH/results/E6600_1/swiftechg4storm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2/19_20/0801/9x/667/400-500-44412-4_1.45-1.3-1.65-2.3_std/memset/superpi-32m_single_13min56s422ms.png)

So it does seem for 4:5 divider the culprit maybe tRD = 6. Now some folks managed to get high 4:5 clocks on P5W DH and I suspect this due to higher voltages or voltage mods on vdimm and vMCH as these two voltages help the memory/MCH handle the tight tRD value of 6 apparently. With enough voltage you could clock the memory higher for 4:5 ratio :)

Seems to me that for 975x chipset, both the max FSB limits and inability to handle high fsb in 4:5 and 2:3 dividers all comes down to tRD being too tight at 6. How far you can take your FSB and clocks in async divider mode, depend on:

1. MCH/NB quality and latencies
2. MCH/NB cooling - better MCH/NB cooling = higher FSB and higher memory clocks
3. MCH Voltage
4. Memory modules used - if the memory can handle tRD = 6 well then it will clock higher, allowing high FSB
5. vDIMM - memory voltage helps memory handle tighter advance timings, thus higher max FSB

Further proof, i upped vdimm to 2.4v with vMCH still at 1.65v and booted into windows at 9x390fsb 4:5 487mhz 4-4-4-8. Using memset loosened timings to match that of default 2:3 divider tRFC = 42 and Write to Precharge Cmd = 13 but loosened tRD from 6 to 7. Managed to clock memory right up to 540mhz 4-4-4-8 at 2.4v without problems for single 32M and 538mhz 4-4-4-8 for dual 32M.

Single 32M @540mhz 4-4-4-8 at 2.4v
http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/P5WDH/results/E6600_1/swiftechg4storm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2/19_20/0801/9x/667/432-540-4448-4_1.65-1.3-1.65-2.4_std/memset/tRD7_default/superpi-32m_single_13min01s532ms_tn.png (http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/P5WDH/results/E6600_1/swiftechg4storm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2/19_20/0801/9x/667/432-540-4448-4_1.65-1.3-1.65-2.4_std/memset/tRD7_default/superpi-32m_single_13min01s532ms.png)

Dual 32M @538mhz 4-4-4-8 at 2.4v
http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/P5WDH/results/E6600_1/swiftechg4storm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2/19_20/0801/9x/667/430-538-4448-4_1.65-1.3-1.65-2.4_std/memset/tRD7_default/superpi-32m_14min25s27s_tn.png (http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/P5WDH/results/E6600_1/swiftechg4storm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2/19_20/0801/9x/667/430-538-4448-4_1.65-1.3-1.65-2.4_std/memset/tRD7_default/superpi-32m_14min25s27s.png)

And now tightening the rest of memset timings while tRD = 7

http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/P5WDH/results/E6600_1/swiftechg4storm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2/19_20/0801/9x/667/422-528-4448-4_1.65-1.3-1.65-2.4_std/memset/superpi-32m_single_13min07s_tn.png (http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/P5WDH/results/E6600_1/swiftechg4storm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2/19_20/0801/9x/667/422-528-4448-4_1.65-1.3-1.65-2.4_std/memset/superpi-32m_single_13min07s.png)

Decide to push my E6600 a bit harder with stock heatpipe MCH/NB heatsink still, i bumped vcore and vMCH in bios to 1.675v (1.64-1.65v windows) and 1.85v respectively and managed to pull off

Max cpu validation @4261mhz - 9x473fsb :cool:
1M @4115mhz - 9x457fsb
32M @4023mhz - 9x447fsb

http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/P5WDH/results/E6600_1/swiftechg4storm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2/19_20/0801/9x/533/473-473-4435-4_1.675-1.3-185-2.4_std/cpuz_validated.png

http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/P5WDH/results/E6600_1/swiftechg4storm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2/19_20/0801/9x/533/457-457-4435-4_1.675-1.3-185-2.4_std/superpi-1m_12281s_tnn.png (http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/P5WDH/results/E6600_1/swiftechg4storm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2/19_20/0801/9x/533/457-457-4435-4_1.675-1.3-185-2.4_std/superpi-1m_12281s.png)

http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/P5WDH/results/E6600_1/swiftechg4storm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2/19_20/0801/9x/533/447-447-4435-4_1.675-1.3-185-2.4_std/superpi-32m_single_12min43s609ms_tn.png (http://fileshosts.com/intel/Asus/P5WDH/results/E6600_1/swiftechg4storm/Gskill/PC6400PHU2/19_20/0801/9x/533/447-447-4435-4_1.675-1.3-185-2.4_std/superpi-32m_single_12min43s609ms.png)



Radiical Chipset Waterblock Installation

Time has come to remove stock heatpipe MCH/NB heatsink and replace it with Radiical.com.au chipset waterblock :D

First, I cut a piece of sticky back insulation foam horizontally to a paper near paper thin height and stuck it on the 2 corners of MCH green PCB near the hooks. Just added precaution in case i crush the MCH chipset core heh. Second, I put some Microcool silver mosfet heatsinks on the mosfets near the cpu socket.

http://i4memory.com/reviewimages/motherboards/asus/P5WDH/radiicalchipset/thumbnails/thumb_RadiicalChipset_001.jpg (http://i4memory.com/reviewimages/motherboards/asus/P5WDH/radiicalchipset/photos/RadiicalChipset_001.html) http://i4memory.com/reviewimages/motherboards/asus/P5WDH/radiicalchipset/thumbnails/thumb_RadiicalChipset_004.jpg (http://i4memory.com/reviewimages/motherboards/asus/P5WDH/radiicalchipset/photos/RadiicalChipset_004.html) http://i4memory.com/reviewimages/motherboards/asus/P5WDH/radiicalchipset/thumbnails/thumb_RadiicalChipset_005.jpg (http://i4memory.com/reviewimages/motherboards/asus/P5WDH/radiicalchipset/photos/RadiicalChipset_005.html)

Then mounted the Radiical chipset waterblock.

http://i4memory.com/reviewimages/motherboards/asus/P5WDH/radiicalchipset/thumbnails/thumb_RadiicalChipset_019.jpg (http://i4memory.com/reviewimages/motherboards/asus/P5WDH/radiicalchipset/photos/RadiicalChipset_019.html) http://i4memory.com/reviewimages/motherboards/asus/P5WDH/radiicalchipset/thumbnails/thumb_RadiicalChipset_020.jpg (http://i4memory.com/reviewimages/motherboards/asus/P5WDH/radiicalchipset/photos/RadiicalChipset_020.html) http://i4memory.com/reviewimages/motherboards/asus/P5WDH/radiicalchipset/thumbnails/thumb_RadiicalChipset_023.jpg (http://i4memory.com/reviewimages/motherboards/asus/P5WDH/radiicalchipset/photos/RadiicalChipset_023.html)

Will start testing for max FSB now.. wish me luck :)

[lopri]

I've never paid attention to tRD but apparently it plays a role with FSB frequency? But my board boots at same tRD(=5) all the time with an E6400. I tried to loosen it but it fails Super PI. :confused: I have an E6700 but I never bothered to look at the Memset values. I will check it out later.

I've just did SP 32M with tRD=5 @425FSB with the E6400. (Just for stability testing) Vcore=1.55, Vmch=1.65, Vdimm=2.4. I can only go higher than 425FSB by giving up 1:1, or running memory slower than FSB. (~440FSB-ish)

http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/8889/trd5ye0.th.png (http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=trd5ye0.png)

[eva2000]

what memory you using ? sounds like tRD =5 only some memory can handle it and not all.. you much have memory that can handle tight timings like tRD = 5

[lopri]

It's just a plain D9 Team Xtreem DDR2-667 which tops out @DDR2-1066. If anything the difference might be from the CPU? (2MB vs 4MB)

[eva2000]

interesting... i'll have a play with Turbo a bit later..testing Standard performance mode right now

[Pjoeloe]

don't think you can use deluxe bios on non-deluxe they're different chipsets heh
the info has been passed onto intel and asus so it's waiting game :)
Well, it`s been a time ago since you passed the mail to Asus, did they forget this ? :p: ( interesting that trd story ..I didn`t know that )

[Nosfer@tu]

Anny updates?

[Falkentyne]

Eva, do you know what's the difference between "Auto","Standard", and "Turbo" in P5W-DH BIOS? For some reason my setup is most stable on "Turbo" and my board boots with tRD=5 no matter what FSB I'm on. (also regardless of Auto/Standard/Turbo) :confused:

I tried "Turbo" once, and although the computer worked, it took 3x as long to load windows, and then when I checked device manager, one of the IDE channels was in PIO mode-.- It had to be the C: drive on the Jmicron controller, but yet above that "device", it showed the exact same drive in UDMA 5.... I have 3 HD's, two on SATA, one on the Jmicron, both SATA's appeared on UDMA 5 (primary IDE channel) , and the Jmicron appeared on also UDMA5, but below that it was on "PIO mode" @_@

I rebooted and set it to Standard and it was back on UDMA 5....go figure.

[charlie]

great conclusions... will try it.

[don_vercetti]

Yeah, followed into this from another thread, looking forward to trying out loosen TRD tonight.

I'm quite annoyed asus STILL hasn't let us have all the alpha timings in the BIOS yet on p5w dh. Why does the cheaper p5b dlx get it, and we don't?

[simonmaltby]

I am now confident that this has been proven now...

I have just changed my mobo to the P5W64 WS pro and the latest bios lets you set more memory options. Setting trd to 7 in the bios makes the same kit that was fsb limited (380mhz) on the P5WDH stable at 445Mhz or the p5w64

I am guessing here but think that Asus dont have enough bios memory on the P5WDH to add these settings, this could be due to the DH bits like EZRaid.

[monkeyBite]

So it does seem for 4:5 divider the culprit maybe tRD = 6. Now some folks managed to get high 4:5 clocks on P5W DH and I suspect this due to higher voltages or voltage mods on vdimm and vMCH as these two voltages help the memory/MCH handle the tight tRD value of 6 apparently. With enough voltage you could clock the memory higher for 4:5 ratio :)

I've gotten a lot of great information from you guys and this thread, so thanks for that :D

I have found that with my setup (see sig) I have to loosen TRD to 8 to get up to 400FSB.

Since I can't adjust it in the BIOS, I am booting at 385 x 9, and then raising clock speeds from there with SysTool towards and over 400. I'm at 4:5 right now, so with the 400FSB, my ram is running 1000mhz @ 5-5-5-15, trfc 42, trd 8. 7 isn't really stable @ 400 x 9, but 8 seems to do the trick. Regardless, I am still having trouble getting stable at anything over 400. I've tried 1:1 divider as well, but I think that my NB is getting too hot with the higher FSB speeds, and I know that these corsair chips can handle this speed (TWIN2X2048-8500C5).

Any suggestions on how I might push ahead a bit further (apart from NB cooling, which I'm getting around to)?

vCore: 1.42
vDimm: 2.2
FSB Term: 1.4
vMCH: 1.65

I am pretty near ecstatic with my 3.6ghz results on this Conroe, as this is my first real overclock, but I know I can get more out of it....

http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc?id=134266

[BAR*B*Q]

very interesting findings. cheers to the originator and eva2000 his sharing the very few experiences. :) here are mine...

max fsb 32 M @ following setting (x7 multi and 1:1 divider)

-BeQuiet 600W
-Asus P5WDH (67, vmch mod)
-E6300 (626A)
-G.Skill HZ (D9 631)

without tweaking subtimings 450 mhz fsb was easy here. booting and 32 M as well. booting up to 460 mhz is possible too. but not 32M stable though.

anything above 450 mhz 1:1 was not stable (32M). first i thought cpu is limitating but increasing vcore gave no improvement. messing with vmch as well. even up to 2,1 v. so i made myself finding this thread... :)

here is how i passed following clocks. in between crucial changes to reach next clock...


450 mhz // 4-4-3-4 / 28-6 // 1,4 / ~ 1,86

tweaking subs and raising vcore ->


455 mhz // 4-4-3-5 / 42-7 // 1,5625 / ~ 1,86

raising vmch ->


460 mhz // 4-4-3-5 / 42-7 // 1,6 / ~ 1,99

relaxing tRD again ->


465 mhz (boot @ 460) // 4-4-3-5 / 42-8 // 1,6125 / ~ 1,99




// tCL-tRTC-tRP-tRAS / tRFC-tRD // vcore (set in bios) / vmch (read with vmeter)


http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/3324/cropqk0.jpg

summering a few of my rookie experiences... comments required !

-increasing vmch was not usefull until lowering tRFC/tRD @ 460 mhz !
-booting cold with high vmch allways fails. also after a crashed setting.
->lower voltage @ lower temps are not only possible but duty ?
-verifying 465 mhz result failed. got an early freeze two times @ 32 M :wth:

edit : just cant reach my max fsb anymore :stick: allways get a freeze after 1 loop @ 32 M :confused:

[Haltech]

So how hard would it be for someone to remove some crap out of the bios for us Xtreme OC'rs to make room for more memory timings? I know there are several people here who personally know engineers at Asus or even can do it at their house. How about giving it a whirl?