Forecast & Initial Analysis of G80 & R600

[sladesurfer]

:cool: http://www.vr-zone.com/?i=3852

NVIDIA's approach corresponds to DirectX 10 more quickly than utilizing DirectX 10 to full, with the safe route it is taking with G80. Also NVIDIA, has applied for Unified-Shader-related patent and is advancing the development of Unified-Shader. Moving to a 65nm process, proper preparation has to be done. NVIDIA is just taking it slower and safer. This judgment is correct in a certain sense. Windows Vista which stacked the execution time of DirectX 10 has slipped, DirectX 10 correspondence of application furthermore is ahead of that. Then, to optimize in DirectX 10, it is not critical carrying over in the following phase. But, when the shift to of DirectX 10 advances well ahead, ATi's approach with R600 becomes profitable if Unified-Shader can show the efficiency according to expectations.

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/4682/kaigai03lyo3.jpg
http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/515/kaigai04lef7.jpg

[theteamaqua]

well i am getting RD600 conroe board, so R600 is what i have to get ..

[nn_step]

RD600==ATi chipset
R600==ATi graphics chip
Can you see the difference?

[LOE]

I think he does... he wants to keep it in one team :) thou intel and ati ... now when ati is amd :)

[theteamaqua]

yes i am getting RD600 the conroe board, then get R600 for GPU ...

i shoulda say crossfire cuz thats what im planning

[XS Janus]

You will definitely be caught in the crossfire when you get all that: Intel and Ati vs. AMD-daddy+ drivers (2x of Ati drivers:cool: ) vs. your peace of mind:D

:stick:

[zakelwe]

I think a good guess will be that ATI will be unifying everything ( pixel + vertex + geometry shaders ) whilst nvidia will just be unifying the vertex and geometry shaders for D3D10 / DX10 or whatever you want to call it.

I think nvidia are assuming that doing it this way will stop the pixel shader stalling too much but Ati think their driver can dynamically get around this without too much of an overhead. Nvidia cautious, ATi adventurous.

Certainly there is a lot to play for this time with the next range of cards. Should be exciting who has made the best guesses :D

Regards

Andy

[DilTech]

I think NVidia are trying to keep the transistor count down.

ATi's new chip, with it's 500+ million transistor count, will dwarf the size of the R580. It'd be bigger than the R580 even if the R600 turned out to be 65nm... ATi are taking a massive risk on this one, no doubt.

NVidia aren't going to try something like that on 90nm, I'm thinkin they'll make the switch over at 65nm. After all, they've already patented a unified shaders design/technology, so they obviously plan on using it sooner or later. At 90nm, however, cooling the chip becomes the obvious struggle, and power consumption a close second. 80nm, same problem.

65nm makes the job managable.

[nn_step]

Actually I think ATi is thinking they can keep the Shader count down by sharing all the shaders. So instead of saying 24 Vertex, 24 Geometry, and 24 Pixel they are just going to say "48 Unified" which will give them plenty of flexible performance.

[ahmad]

Actually I think ATi is thinking they can keep the Shader count down by sharing all the shaders. So instead of saying 24 Vertex, 24 Geometry, and 24 Pixel they are just going to say "48 Unified" which will give them plenty of flexible performance.

The whole point of unified shaders is to reduce transistor count in the first place. No one expects 100% improvement just by going to unified shaders anyways (there is the obvious performance increase, but the load balancer requires a bit of overhead and this is a somewhat early stage for unified architectures anyways).

If you ask me it seems Nvidia's unified shading research/tech isn't as advanced as ATIs. Heck ATI has been researching this in the days of the R400, so it doesn't surprise me that they are ahead in that area.

Hopefully Nvidia's "raw power" approach can keep them in the game rather than ATI's more advanced and complex approach. Competition is a good thing.

[Starscream]

if R600 transister count is really so high im more afraid of its price.

i do hope although that they wont go cheap on the cooling and come up with a solution that just barely keeps it at ok temps.

[DilTech]

The whole point of unified shaders is to reduce transistor count in the first place. No one expects 100% improvement just by going to unified shaders anyways (there is the obvious performance increase, but the load balancer requires a bit of overhead and this is a somewhat early stage for unified architectures anyways).

If you ask me it seems Nvidia's unified shading research/tech isn't as advanced as ATIs. Heck ATI has been researching this in the days of the R400, so it doesn't surprise me that they are ahead in that area.

Hopefully Nvidia's "raw power" approach can keep them in the game rather than ATI's more advanced and complex approach. Competition is a good thing.

The point of unified shaders isn't to bring down transistors, but to increase efficiency. It actually requires more transistors because every "shader" has to be able to complete any number of tasks, in comparison to each shader just doing one thing.

[Cobalt]

I'd disagree that ATi are trying to be adventurous. They already did the adventurous bit with the xenon GPU. Now they are refining the architecture for use in the PC. nV haven't had that experience so they are just taking the first stage. I think they are both going at the same speed but ATi started earlier.

Lets just hope the new ATi cooler is up to the job. We don't want water cooling to become a requirement :D

[b0bd0le]

how different is the R600 from the xbox360's VPU?

[[XC] Lead Head]

how different is the R600 from the xbox360's VPU?

Probably enhanced feature set, refined a bit, and it has 16 more shaders

[b0bd0le]

Probably enhanced feature set, refined a bit, and it has 16 more shaders


so more or less what the X1900 was to the X1800?

[ahmad]

More/Better ALUs is also another thing ;)

so more or less what the X1900 was to the X1800?

64 vs 56 (x1900) shaders in total, but it will be unified so it will have that advantage. Obviously you cannot compare directly because this card will be unlike anything (before Xenos) that ATI has made. Will no longer have the same "feel" or the same behaviour that we have seen from all ATI's pervious gen (r300+), so who knows what we can expect.

Heck, maybe ATI has even improved OpenGL support. Surprise me ATI.

PS. I guess that makes sense DilTech. For something to be more generic/general it has got to be larger than something more dedicated. This is what happens when you post the first thing that comes to mind: disagree with the enemy :p:

[DilTech]

how different is the R600 from the xbox360's VPU?

More ALU's, more shaders, better memory controller, the ability for the unified shaders to do Geometry as well as pixel and vertex shaders(the only thing stopping the X360 from being DX10 compliant), and lack of EDRam.

[nn_step]

Heck, maybe ATI has even improved OpenGL support. Surprise me ATI.

I'll be completely happy if for once we can have Open Sourse drivers for linux :slobber:

[Starscream]

I'll be completely happy if for once we can have Open Sourse drivers for linux :slobber:

ATI till now was stopping open source drivers for the x1300 maybe now AMD owns em we will get lucky.