7900 and statistics

[t024484]

EVGA and others are trying to tell us that the majority of boards are working properly, and that less of a percent is causing trouble.
This means that you have less then 1/100 probabilty to receive one faulty board, less than 1/10000 probability to receive two faulty boards, and less than 1/1000.000 probability to receive three faulty boards in a row.
I have read at least 10 mails of people who have received three or even more faulty boards in a row.
You will have to produce 10.000.000 boards to have 10 people with 3 faulty boards if the probability is 1/1000.000.
I do not believe that EVGA or anybody else has produced so many boards, ergo the problem is much, much bigger than they tell us.

Whatever the problem is, I expect them to continue telling us stories and making minor adjustments, until the successor of the G71 will be there in september. After that the G71 will probably be burried.

[madgravity34]

I would have to agree as the number of users that have issues is too great to have probabilities that low. My theory is that there are PCB issues or memory issues and nobody wants to do anything about them because it would mean a re-design of the pcb designs. I really have a feeling that it has nothing to do with the cores/nvidia, and everything to do with the manufacturers because nvidia designed the 7900gt's to run at MUCH lower memory and core clocks than they are being pushed to. With all the excitement everyone had over the 7900gt being just a low clocked/less memory version of the 7900gtx, they forgot to remeber that there is a reason the card is cheaper and has lower clocks. Nvidia was covering its ass as a business and keeping the gtx for anyone into overclocking but with everyone (including manufacturers) pushing the gt's so hard its no surprise this issue comes up. The gt's simply were never designed to handle the clocks that manufactuers are applying to them and they dont want to take responsibility. I really hope this doesnt turn too many people away from nvidia as they do have impressive cores, its the manufacters to blame.


PS. Sorry for the long rant hehe.....

[t024484]

I would have to agree as the number of users that have issues is too great to have probabilities that low. My theory is that there are PCB issues or memory issues and nobody wants to do anything about them because it would mean a re-design of the pcb designs. I really have a feeling that it has nothing to do with the cores/nvidia, and everything to do with the manufacturers because nvidia designed the 7900gt's to run at MUCH lower memory and core clocks than they are being pushed to. With all the excitement everyone had over the 7900gt being just a low clocked/less memory version of the 7900gtx, they forgot to remeber that there is a reason the card is cheaper and has lower clocks. Nvidia was covering its ass as a business and keeping the gtx for anyone into overclocking but with everyone (including manufacturers) pushing the gt's so hard its no surprise this issue comes up. The gt's simply were never designed to handle the clocks that manufactuers are applying to them and they dont want to take responsibility. I really hope this doesnt turn too many people away from nvidia as they do have impressive cores, its the manufacters to blame.


PS. Sorry for the long rant hehe.....
Does the GTX not have exactly the same problems as the GT, like freezing, artifacting, problems with deep freeze etc,etc.

Apart from the G71 GPU every single component is different.
The GTX is sold in much smaller numbers as the GT, thats why we hear somewhat less horror stories, but look around and you will find quite a few.

Also many non overclocked GT's are having the same problems.

So my bet is that the G71 or something closely related to the GPU is to blame and not the PCB, not the memory and not the Voltage regulators.

It is a pitty that the GPU is not socketed like a CPU. You could immediately check a faulty board with another GPU and have the confirmation if the GPU is the troublemaker or something else.

[Orion24]

So my bet is that the G71 or something closely related to the GPU is to blame and not the PCB, not the memory and not the Voltage regulators.Sounds the worst possible scenario to me. But shouldn't the 7590GX2 cards also be affected then? I still can't get the memory, or something related to it, out of my mind. My personal exerience with the 7900GT voltage mods, was serious artifacting/tearing, etc, that were all gone and never came back (so far) by clearing the memory voltage mod. I got very surprised, because I had passive coolers on the memory, glued with arctic adhesive and I also had a good air flow in the case.

[t024484]

Sounds the worst possible scenario to me. But shouldn't the 7590GX2 cards also be affected then? I still can't get the memory, or something related to it, out of my mind. My personal exerience with the 7900GT voltage mods, was serious artifacting/tearing, etc, that were all gone and never came back (so far) by clearing the memory voltage mod. I got very surprised, because I had passive coolers on the memory, glued with arctic adhesive and I also had a good air flow in the case.
Does the 7950 have the same GPU?
The GT has G71 GT-N-A2 as a codename and the 7950 has G71 D-H-N-A2.
Are just the numbers different or is the chip different ?

[Orion24]

Does the 7950 have the same GPU?
The GT has G71 GT-N-A2 as a codename and the 7950 has G71 D-H-N-A2.
Are just the numbers different or is the chip different ?Maybe it's a newer rivision, but its still the same chip AFAIK

[t024484]

Maybe it's a newer rivision, but its still the same chip AFAIK
It is either a newer revision, with better properties, or it is the same chip.
It cannot be both.
Another possibility is, that because of the far smaller quantities of the 7950 compared to the 7900, that they let the board run "Deepfreeze" for quite some time. This could be the "D" in the part number. Just a wild guess.

[Orion24]

It is either a newer revision, with better properties, or it is the same chip.
It cannot be both.I mean it's not a chip that can't be used in 7900 cards.

*edit* A direct response from NVIDIA that a guy says he had (at nvidia forum) regarding 10 new 7900GTX card failures in a raw, claimed that the new working cards are using a different memory. This also appears to be the case with the new EVGA cards, that I've yet to hear someone having a problem with.

[Demo]

I mean it's not a chip that can't be used in 7900 cards.

*edit* A direct response from NVIDIA that a guy says he had (at nvidia forum) regarding 10 new 7900GTX card failures in a raw, claimed that the new working cards are using a different memory. This also appears to be the case with the new EVGA cards, that I've yet to hear someone having a problem with.


There are several people at futuremark forums having problems with the new rev of cards that carries the Infeneon ram, some of them already got 3 defective ones in a row of RMA, all were new rev of cards.

Its strange that only XFX,eVGA,BFG(?) are affected of this problem.. others specifically Inno3d,sparkle,palit,asus,msi(?) and galaxy brands dont seem to have a problem.

I've alreayd ask the local distro of Inno3d in my country and they never had a single 7900GT returned for any reason.

[t024484]

There are several people at futuremark forums having problems with the new rev of cards that carries the Infeneon ram, some of them already got 3 defective ones in a row of RMA, all were new rev of cards.

Its strange that only XFX,eVGA,BFG(?) are affected of this problem.. others specifically Inno3d,sparkle,palit,asus,msi(?) and galaxy brands dont seem to have a problem.

I've alreayd ask the local distro of Inno3d in my country and they never had a single 7900GT returned for any reason.
I already had great doubts wether the Infineon Memory was going to solve the existing problems, now we have the prove that this was not the holy grail.
I still think that the G71 chip is the one to blame.

On the other hand, I cannot understand why some suppliers are having less problems than others. All the boards are manufactured by one and the same factory in China?
Maybe these smaller suppliers only use heavily checked and tested G71 chips ?
Btw, Asus does not belong to the troublefree suppliers, I have seen many reports of faulty Asus boards.
The 7950 with the different G71 D-H-N-A2 numbering also seems to be a different or heavily selected chip, since I have not read many problems with this board.

[4Qman]

Interesting Thread lads,

I also agree there must be a higher number of faulty Cards then they state. I must be the worlds most unlucky dude if i go by there stats as i had 2XFX 7900GT cards die on me.:mad: They had the samsung ram but new Caps.

I decided to go back and stick with my trusty 7800GT SLI setup which ive broken & re-soldered caps, Both Vmodded and Bulls of steel.

7900GT seems the best buy and are a awsome perfoming card, if you get one that lasts. :cool:

[humeyboy]

I cant believe peeps still think all graphics cards are made in same factory and different stickers stuck on fans with vendors branding lol.

You dont realise Chaintech/BFG/Asus/Gainward/XFX/EVGA etc etc all are given guidelines by Nvidia on what parts they can use and functions like VIVO etc are allowed, they then use there own PCB (Gainward use red, Nvidia ref is green) they stick on the GPU bought from Nvidia and then use Samsung or Inifin ram at ratings Nvidia spec ie 1.1ns or such, they then stick on all other chips/mosfets,caps etc etc, and thats where it can fail as the parts may be infearior to parts used by another vendor.

Just because some vendors sticks to the Nvidia ref board and cooler doesnt mean they werent all put together in the vendors own FAB plant.

If that was true then you could buy any cheapo card and flash with best bios from 1 vendor and you would have best card you could get.

[Demo]

@t024484
Asus doesnt have a problem i think. as also indicated on my list.
And ive never heard someone with an Asus that got problems.
Also to add to the list Albatron has problems with their 7900GT as well.

for the record how long could these 7900GT ( overclocked or not ) run b4 w/o problems? the longest ive read was about 3 months of heavy usage and running under GTX speeds.. after that his card gave in.. others up until now overclocked or not is still going strong..

my card personally is doing fine since July 04 ,2006 and been running at 1.55v 650Mhz core and 800Mhz mem.

[t024484]

I cant believe peeps still think all graphics cards are made in same factory and different stickers stuck on fans with vendors branding lol.

You dont realise Chaintech/BFG/Asus/Gainward/XFX/EVGA etc etc all are given guidelines by Nvidia on what parts they can use and functions like VIVO etc are allowed, they then use there own PCB (Gainward use red, Nvidia ref is green) they stick on the GPU bought from Nvidia and then use Samsung or Inifin ram at ratings Nvidia spec ie 1.1ns or such, they then stick on all other chips/mosfets,caps etc etc, and thats where it can fail as the parts may be infearior to parts used by another vendor.

Just because some vendors sticks to the Nvidia ref board and cooler doesnt mean they werent all put together in the vendors own FAB plant.

If that was true then you could buy any cheapo card and flash with best bios from 1 vendor and you would have best card you could get.
The information that I picked up some time ago, is that all boards are manufactured in the same plant in China.
That does not mean that this factory belongs to NVIDIA, because it does not.
It also does not mean that all the boards are the same, because they are not.
Obviously suppliers specify there own requirements, like fans, Ram, board colour, or whatever they like.
In such a competetive market, it will be impossible for a 7900 supplier to compete against other 7900 suppliers who are buying from a mass manufacturer in China

[humeyboy]

If you want to believe that and it lets you rest easier at night thats up to you, I know different, and who said anything about Nvidia owning the factories ?, the factories are owned by vendor ie Asus or XFX etc etc and they put together their graphics cards aswell as mobos etc.

BTW most of the big vendors are in Asia, be it Taiwan not really Chine, they got more oem factories.

[Demo]

XFX has its own factory ? ( in making cards that is )

[t024484]

XFX has its own factory ? ( in making cards that is )
My one-factory info came from Digit Life, who are quite well informed most of the time.
When they are wrong, fine, I couldn't care less who is manufacturing and where.
It is simply a non-issue.

I want a reliable product, which is not a reflection of the current situation.
Therefore I would like to know what is really going on, instead of hearing fairy tales from Vendors, like: "less then 1% failure rate".