Water or Air for Conroe High(er) OCs?

[Theta]

For those of you that have an ES for testing, could you please answer a quick question for me?

Our chips are coming in soon, and I'd like to have these nicely overclocked for display purposes.

Anyone have direct comparisons between a TT Big Typhoon or Tuniq versus a simple 120mm rad setup with a Storm, or similar?

Just wondering what temp differences and subsequent OC ability can be achieved by making the jump to a small water loop system.

[Danger30Q]

I have a Conroe 6700 Stepping 5 ES with a Zalman 9500 and it can do max 4Ghz. I don't think you are going to find a big difference when it comes to using watercooling vs air. You may be able to get a 150-200mhz increase with a great WC system, but you've already gone from 2.66ghz to 4ghz on air so what's another 100-200 really going to do price vs performance balance. If I'm going to upgrade beyond air, I'll be skipping WC all together and going straight for phase change. A 4ghz 6700 on air will likely be able to safely do 4.5ghz on phase change -40C.

[doc6886]

Danger, what are your temps with your CPU @ 4ghz? What about the vcore?

[Theta]

Indeed, what are your temps? There may be more than 150-200mhz if more vcore is an issue with air.

Just trying to get a handle on how much vcore air can handle vs single loop water on Conroe.

[brandinb]

i would think if you have a conroe that loves high v-core then water will give big improvement.

otherwise a cpu that oc very well on low v-core water is a waste and wont help much.

[Silver Bullet]

I think if Danger30Q can get 4Ghz with a Z9500, a Tuniq tower 120 or TT BT should do just fine. 4Ghz is about as high I would suspect as most motherboards are going to take you anyway (10x400 for a 6700 and 9x444 for a 6600). Also for the extra $200+ the WCing is going to cost you, whats another 200mhz or 10c difference ... I would use the extra money on improving something else in your system. Maybe get a 150GB Raptor or 2GB of ram .. etc .. something that you really going to notice (and for sure your going to notice the raptor, i know i did!)

[thunderstruck!]

I have a Conroe 6700 Stepping 5 ES with a Zalman 9500 and it can do max 4Ghz. I don't think you are going to find a big difference when it comes to using watercooling vs air. You may be able to get a 150-200mhz increase with a great WC system, but you've already gone from 2.66ghz to 4ghz on air so what's another 100-200 really going to do price vs performance balance. If I'm going to upgrade beyond air, I'll be skipping WC all together and going straight for phase change. A 4ghz 6700 on air will likely be able to safely do 4.5ghz on phase change -40C.
Is that stable? What are the temps, and how much vcore are you using? Pics?

[jumanji969]

Of all the Conroe posts I have yet to see actual temps from their systems. I think the problem is onboard temperature monitoring with the Bad Axe sucks.

[Theta]

4Ghz is about as high I would suspect as most motherboards are going to take you anyway (10x400 for a 6700 and 9x444 for a 6600).

I'll be using X6800s, so FSB limitations need not apply here.

Really, I'm looking for vCore increase correlating with air vs water.

What vCores are you guys using?

[Danger30Q]

I will be able to give more info on vcore and possible temps when I re-bench the system in the next 2 days. I do know that these Stepping 5 Conroes all seem to clock the same so I suspect that if you find the other posts in this forum regarding Stepping 5 chips only, you can accurately get an idea of temps and vcore since we are all using the same board. The reason I don't like going for WC with the Conroes is that the phase change that have been used give only 400-500mhz gain. Granted a 500mhz gain is what most people get with phase on most other chips, going from 2.66 to 4.0 on air is huge, but then only getting 4.4-4.5ghz after phase just doesn't seem all that great. Now if you use WC, you only get 4.2 maybe.

I think you should save the money on WC and either get a better video card or get a better Conroe, although I think going from the 6700 to the X6800 is pointless for double the cost.

[Theta]

The reason I don't like going for WC with the Conroes is that the phase change that have been used give only 400-500mhz gain. Granted a 500mhz gain is what most people get with phase on most other chips, going from 2.66 to 4.0 on air is huge, but then only getting 4.4-4.5ghz after phase just doesn't seem all that great. Now if you use WC, you only get 4.2 maybe.

Good point... Sort of looks like phase or nothing, since water has diminishing returns.

Additionally, there's not a lot of heat to move away, since these run at ~45W. Guess I'm just too stuck in the 125W+ past. :D

[ShiningArcanine]

For those of you that have an ES for testing, could you please answer a quick question for me?

Our chips are coming in soon, and I'd like to have these nicely overclocked for display purposes.

Anyone have direct comparisons between a TT Big Typhoon or Tuniq versus a simple 120mm rad setup with a Storm, or similar?

Just wondering what temp differences and subsequent OC ability can be achieved by making the jump to a small water loop system.

If it is for display purposes, perhaps a water cooling setup might be a better idea. One, it looks nicer, and two, it should be quieter.

[[XC]Atomicpineapple]

Actual temps as reported by Intel monitoring software on my bad axe (E6400 ES chip running at 1.275V 2.13GHz with stock cooler) is 64 degrees full load, dont know about idle, system runs Rosetta constantly. What are your temps like Pete?

[Eastcoasthandle]

WC will always be a better option
-reduces heat, period
-can be quieter depending on setup
-a good setup will cool better then air
-some of us don't cool for better overclock just to keep the CPU cooler with less noise
-some of use with X1000 need a good WC setup anyway if you want a decent oc so why not get a WB for your CPU??

These are just some of the reasons, not all and this is not the end all or "mother" of all reasons to watercool. Everyone has their reasons to be honest. I find no reason not to WC your Conroe if you plan on overclocking it or not. Sometimes I find some posters logic only subjective to what they consider reality...<a href="http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008_ZNfox000" target="_blank"><img src="http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_21.gif" alt="Roll" border="0"></a>

[thunderstruck!]

Good point... Sort of looks like phase or nothing, since water has diminishing returns.

Additionally, there's not a lot of heat to move away, since these run at ~45W. Guess I'm just too stuck in the 125W+ past. :D
He said he OCed to 4ghz, but showed no shots of stability. When you look in the overclocking section and see 4Ghz threads, people are using 1.6+v (Stock is 1.15v) for single 1M runs on air. If you want to run 1M all day then that's fine, but chances are the OC will be much lower for 24/7 stability (like running rosetta). Then 4.2-3Ghz on water may start to sound appealing.

[Theta]

We use water for show, but in this case, I was wondering about the performance.

If 1.6v is really necessary, I can see the need for WC (high-end at that) to keep 24/7 OCs as high as possible.

The only question I am battling with at this point is the cost difference. High-end WC can run $300-400... Not too far away from a phase change device.

I guess time will tell on the average voltage needed, realistic temps, etc.