34Amps For X1900XT enough?? [Archive]

scream

06-26-2006, 07:53 PM

hey guys, my PSU Verudium Vortex 430W has dual 12V rails, each rail provides 17Amps with a +/-5%... a total of 34Amps.. do you think this is enough for my X1900XT or am I pushing it??

i seem to be having artifacts during the SM3.0 scenes of 3dmark06... =(

dexx

06-26-2006, 08:24 PM

Ive read that the xtx draws up to 18A all by itself!

scream

06-26-2006, 08:29 PM

Ive read that the xtx draws up to 18A all by itself!

thts still not too bad, i tested how many amps the X1900XT was pulling by using systools... it went up to 24.5Amps..

does the motherboard require Amps too??

einCe

06-26-2006, 08:31 PM

mine pulls like 30. im using an antec truepower 2.0 550

scream

06-26-2006, 08:37 PM

mine pulls like 30. im using an antec truepower 2.0 550

if thts the case then don't you think im pushing my psu??
cause i noticed artifacts during the SM3.0 scenes of 3dmark06.. so im a little worried...

scream

06-26-2006, 08:42 PM

and the best part is my PSU has no PCIe power connector, im using the molex to PCIe power connector... hmmm.. should have just got a Silverstone Zeus 650W PSU first...

IvanAndreevich

06-26-2006, 10:06 PM

Ive read that the xtx draws up to 18A all by itself!
P = VI = 12V * 18A = 216W -> you better not be telling me that an XTX pulls that many watts.

einCe
Are you saying what ATI Tools says? I don't know WTF that is but it's not 12V for obvious reasons.

scream
17A for one card should be more than enough

sabrewolf732

06-26-2006, 10:17 PM

dnottis

06-26-2006, 10:22 PM

I know for a fact that a stock X1800XT pulls 136W max at full load. (I have contacted PR people at ATI to confirm this for a review we ran awhile back).

The X1900XTX pulls more... and if it's overclocked even more. I have a X1900XTX at 690 / 800 - I wouldn't be suprised if it pulled 160 watts. I'm using an OCZ 520 PSU and have never had a problem, however I have killed a 600 watt Enermax Noisetaker II PSU and an Aerocool 600 watt ZeroDBA PSU trying to review them - not sure if it was the system draw or just faulty components however I'm only trusting my OCZ PSU with this system.

scream

06-26-2006, 10:32 PM

hmmm, im still gonna get a Zeus 650W just to be on the safe side, and if my GFX still produces artifacts then ill just have to go RMA... the strange thing is the card was fine when i got it... i have never overclocked it before and this artifacts appeared 3 weeks after i got the card... =(

tvdang7

06-26-2006, 10:33 PM

so how do we find these numbers out? im interested on how much of my 600w is being used.

IvanAndreevich

06-26-2006, 10:36 PM

You guys really need to learn basic electricity concepts. 30 amps would be an absolutely massive amount of voltage. And btw on almost all psu's you can't just add the rails together.
Ivan:

I'm almost positive you multiply the core voltage by the amperage ati tool reports to find the power being used by the core.
It might be the current through the MOSFETs on the card as well. I am pretty sure it's not core, since it does go up when you clock up / overvolt the RAM :)

einCe

06-26-2006, 10:39 PM

P = VI = 12V * 18A = 216W -> you better not be telling me that an XTX pulls that many watts.

einCe
Are you saying what ATI Tools says? I don't know WTF that is but it's not 12V for obvious reasons.

scream
17A for one card should be more than enough
yes thats ati tool reading under full load

PkG.1337

06-26-2006, 11:56 PM

My Atitool shows power draw of 38Amps under load
VGPU 1.5v
VDDCI 1.58v
700/800

Over 48AMps 1.575v/1.58v 730/800
1900XT CF

dont know if my noisetaker 600w is keeping up or not

eva2000

06-27-2006, 12:42 AM

isn't (ati tool reported amps x GPU volt) + 75W PCI-E slot = total power draw

i.e.

(1.5v gpu x 38amp ati tool) + 75W PCI-E = ~132W /12 = 11A on +12v rail

Winterwind

06-27-2006, 12:45 AM

my 500w fortron can handle 700/1700 XTX and 4500mhz Presler
so i think those 650w über psu-s are too much

einCe

06-27-2006, 01:26 AM

isn't (ati tool reported amps x GPU volt) + 75W PCI-E slot = total power draw

i.e.

(1.5v gpu x 38amp ati tool) + 75W PCI-E = ~132W /12 = 11A on +12v rail
ill take your word for it, that means mine draws 121 watts

PkG.1337

06-27-2006, 01:53 AM

I calculated that my comp draw 542watts max load
which means my noisetaker 600w is not enough
ganna buy a zippy 850w soon

good psu power draw calculator
http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculator.jsp

EDIT: They say I need 709watts :eek: after I put in Surge Compensation and Capacitor Aging info
up to 814watt because of my psu's age and unknow PSU peak load reliability
lol, 814watt yonah rig

Nazu

06-27-2006, 02:13 AM

Those psu power draw calculators are full of s*** and usually exaggerate the amount of wattages that you need. How else would you explain that The Stilt has ran a A64 FX60 and X1900XT CF setup perfectly with Antec Neo HE 380w psu.

Blacklash

06-27-2006, 02:13 AM

I can tell you I am running two X1900 cards at 711|810 with all in my sig on a PC P&C 510 SLi with no issues. In addition to the Pioneer 710B5PK, I have a NEC 3550A DVD drive as a slave I didn't bother listing.

Gamer

06-27-2006, 02:16 AM

my system used 520 watt with overclock.

cantankerous

06-27-2006, 05:35 AM

In Atitool it reads 32.7a whenunder full load. I have seen it read as high as 35.5a too.

alexio

06-27-2006, 05:49 AM

In Atitool it reads 32.7a whenunder full load. I have seen it read as high as 35.5a too.

That's totally off :fact:

The X1900XTX pulls not more than about 12-13a at most. More than that and the cooler could never (ever!) cool that chip.

babalouj

06-27-2006, 06:45 AM

isn't (ati tool reported amps x GPU volt) + 75W PCI-E slot = total power draw

i.e.

(1.5v gpu x 38amp ati tool) + 75W PCI-E = ~132W /12 = 11A on +12v rail

Geez, its like some people just ignored eva's post completely. I think that his formula is as close to correct as we are gonna get. I have run my 2.95Ghz opteron 165, cfx3200dr, 2x512 bh-5 @ 3.3V, 2x300gb HDD, MSI X1900XTX, and dvd burner all on an antec 450W smart psu while I was lending my PC P&C 510 to a friend for diagnostics. It ran fine with no artifacts even under gaming conditions and that smart power has less than 30A on the 12V rail.

alexio

06-27-2006, 06:52 AM

Geez, its like some people jsut ignored eva's post completely.

Yeah, sorry usually never happens to me. I need some sleep :p:

Eva's formula seems right to me. Although I'm not quite sure if the card draws the total 75W from the PCI-E-slot. We should also not forget that in the process of thansforming the 12v voltage to 1.5v quite a lot of power is lost in the form of heat. That's ofcours why the mofsets and other power components get so hot.

But these 2 factors work agains eachother so i guess Eva's formula is quite accurate.

babalouj

06-27-2006, 07:03 AM

Yeah, sorry usually never happens to me. I need some sleep :p:

Eva's formula seems right to me. Although I'm not quite sure if the card draws the total 75W from the PCI-E-slot. We should also not forget that in the process of thansforming the 12v voltage to 1.5v quite a lot of power is lost in the form of heat. That's ofcours why the mofsets and other power components get so hot.

But these 2 factors work agains eachother so i guess Eva's formula is quite accurate.

Its ok, it wasnt really directed towards anyone in particular, lol. I agree with your statements but the statement that quite a lot of power is lost in heat doesnt sit right with me. I work with ICs and power regulation alot and switched power regulation is very very efficient, in this case probably 5-10 watts are wasted which is why the heatsinks are small and only require convection not active cooling. If it were linear regulation then yes quite alot of power would be lost.

sabrewolf732

06-27-2006, 07:14 AM

cantankerous

06-27-2006, 07:52 AM

Geez, its like some people just ignored eva's post completely. I think that his formula is as close to correct as we are gonna get. I have run my 2.95Ghz opteron 165, cfx3200dr, 2x512 bh-5 @ 3.3V, 2x300gb HDD, MSI X1900XTX, and dvd burner all on an antec 450W smart psu while I was lending my PC P&C 510 to a friend for diagnostics. It ran fine with no artifacts even under gaming conditions and that smart power has less than 30A on the 12V rail.

It wasn't that I ignored his post completely, I was simply stating what ATItool 'reads' out to me on the main screen. I have no clue how it managed to get those numbers displayed to me but that is just what it reads.

Kinshou Kuma

06-27-2006, 08:58 AM

I prefer single rail PSU's . Currently I have an Enermax Whisper II 480W with 33a on the single 12v rail. Its fine for my X1900Xt flashed to XTX @675/1602 with my 3.0ghz p4 clocked to 3.81ghz and 2 dvd burners, 1 floppy and some LEDs (lol PC rice).

tvdang7

06-27-2006, 10:08 AM

is 1 nice single better than split up duals?

Praxis1452

06-27-2006, 10:43 AM

Look you can't just add up both 12v rails. You can with certain brands like Seasonic but not for others. The X1800XT goes up to 120 watts I believe and the X1900XTX goes up to like 130-140 MAX. Xbitlabs have reviewed the wattage. No way any XTX draws 34 amps on the 12v rail. Anyway 34 amps if youy do have it on a single rail is enough for Crossfire in my opinion. Now if overclocking a lot I would suggest a bit more just in case. 12v rail spec is what matters... Now a Seasonic 380W will run an X1900XTX since the 12v2 is 15 amps. The 12v1 is 10 amps so a cpu of no more than 120 watts. 5v and 3.3v load is minimal in most systems. The 430W Seasonic could run an X1900XTX and a cpu up to 168 watts. You don't need much power just enough where it counts.

mursaat

06-27-2006, 10:58 AM

isn't (ati tool reported amps x GPU volt) + 75W PCI-E slot = total power draw

i.e.

(1.5v gpu x 38amp ati tool) + 75W PCI-E = ~132W /12 = 11A on +12v railI'll repost this as seems to be the correct (or closest to truth) conclusion. It's impossible that a XTX draws 38 x 12 = 456W :banana:, so the formula from eva is much more logical.

A post in another thread I found:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1511473&postcount=15

What you read in ATITool seems to be the power from the MOSFETs, not the 12V line.

scream

06-27-2006, 06:31 PM

i got my SilverStone Zeus 650W last night... now my GFX seems to be fine... no more artifacts during the SM3.0 scenes... =)

cantankerous

06-27-2006, 07:08 PM

Awesome news, you must be quite happy, I know I would be! Enjoy the card and the new psu should come in handy down the road too.

scream

06-27-2006, 08:32 PM

yeah, its a real relief for me... =) now at least i can start overclocking!!

cantankerous

06-28-2006, 05:32 AM

hehe, let us know how you make out with full details please.

scream

06-28-2006, 07:23 PM

hehe, let us know how you make out with full details please.

haha, yeah.. i'll be sure to do that.. =)
does the Accelero X2 actually work?? i installed it for a day and i was like to hell with this piece of :banana::banana::banana::banana:! lol..

fhpchris

06-28-2006, 07:31 PM

You guys really need to learn basic electricity concepts. 30 amps would be an absolutely massive amount of voltage. And btw on almost all psu's you can't just add the rails together.
Ivan:

I'm almost positive you multiply the core voltage by the amperage ati tool reports to find the power being used by the core.

Watts=Amps x voltage.

Your statement is wrong, should the cards be running ~130w, 30A would be very little voltage, 30A*12v = alot of wattage, way too much.

Just correcting you :) Please use it correctly in the future.

mursaat

06-30-2006, 12:39 AM

^^^ Hmm I think he was right. 130w is adding the PCI-E consumption (around 70w). He says you have to do vcore * amps in ATI Tool, not 12v * amps.

Numbers have sense to me:

130w - 70w from PCI-E = 60w; 60w / 1.55vcore = 38a in ATI Tool which is what I usually get :)

sabrewolf732

06-30-2006, 08:53 AM

Watts=Amps x voltage.

Your statement is wrong, should the cards be running ~130w, 30A would be very little voltage, 30A*12v = alot of wattage, way too much.

Just correcting you :) Please use it correctly in the future.

Ya, typo ='( I know all this stuff from ap physics though :D

deathman20

07-02-2006, 10:20 AM

Yup don't trust ATI Tools ampage reading. My old X1800XL was pulling more amps then my X1900XT is. And the voltage on my X1800XL I wasn't putting more then 1.25V into the core. Now if that pulls 30-35Amps in the reading well damn my X1900XT pulls 24.4-30Amps.

NickS

07-02-2006, 01:20 PM

Wow, my X1900GT pulls 32.7A under full ATiTool load, @ 700/800. So, my card's pullin around 120w.

I have the HIS IceQ3 X1900GT, with that big ass copper cooler on it, and it's GREAT. At 100% it's inaudable over my PC which is quite silent. Check this out, amb. temp around 68*F.

http://upload.nickfire.com//files/1/stability_thumb.jpg
(http://upload.nickfire.com//files/1/stability.JPG)http://upload.nickfire.com//files/1/voltage.JPG

Nick

cantankerous

07-02-2006, 09:48 PM

I see you lowered the mem voltage and VDDCI a tad at 700/800, do you still find the card rock stable?

1.400v is great to get 700mhz on core, at those volts mine tops out at 685mhz max.

NickS

07-02-2006, 09:57 PM

I see you lowered the mem voltage and VDDCI a tad at 700/800, do you still find the card rock stable?

1.400v is great to get 700mhz on core, at those volts mine tops out at 685mhz max.

Yeah I'm glad I got 700 w/such low volts. :)

My card's rock solid stable, too. :D

rob[GL]

07-03-2006, 01:31 PM

I don't know where you guys are getting your numbers, but according to TOMSHARDWARE the X1800/X1900 consumes 360watts under full 3D load, and two X1900 in crossfire consumes 520watts...

I believe these numbers over any that you are giving... Whoever said X1900 uses 160watts under full load is smoking crack... X1900 uses 160watts in 2D...

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/15/graphics_card_buyers_guide_2006_part3/page54.html

rob[GL]

07-03-2006, 01:37 PM

I'll repost this as seems to be the correct (or closest to truth) conclusion. It's impossible that a XTX draws 38 x 12 = 456W :banana:, so the formula from eva is much more logical.

A post in another thread I found:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1511473&postcount=15

What you read in ATITool seems to be the power from the MOSFETs, not the 12V line.

It is totally conceivable that there could be a spike and the power draw for an instant from an X1900XTX could reach 450w... My ATI Tool represents 8A x12 = 96W at stock clocks... 14A x 12 = 168W when overclocked... And under full load, 30A x 12 = 360W...

This is completely accurate.

NickS

07-03-2006, 02:43 PM

']I don't know where you guys are getting your numbers, but according to TOMSHARDWARE the X1800/X1900 consumes 360watts under full 3D load, and two X1900 in crossfire consumes 520watts...

I believe these numbers over any that you are giving... Whoever said X1900 uses 160watts under full load is smoking crack... X1900 uses 160watts in 2D...

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/15/graphics_card_buyers_guide_2006_part3/page54.html

That's for teh whole PC man. They tested it @ the outlet iirc.

rob[GL]

07-03-2006, 03:15 PM

Maybe I am the one with the fat crack pipe then... hehe

I don't see where it says that's for the whole PC though...

NickS

07-03-2006, 03:43 PM

First line man. "The power consumption of our test system ranged from 124 to 398 watts."

;)

Nick

sabrewolf732

07-03-2006, 07:08 PM

']I don't know where you guys are getting your numbers, but according to TOMSHARDWARE the X1800/X1900 consumes 360watts under full 3D load, and two X1900 in crossfire consumes 520watts...

I believe these numbers over any that you are giving... Whoever said X1900 uses 160watts under full load is smoking crack... X1900 uses 160watts in 2D...

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/15/graphics_card_buyers_guide_2006_part3/page54.html

you're out of your mind. You have no idea what you're talking about.

NickS

07-03-2006, 07:23 PM

Like that was necesarry, when I already corrected him. Plz read the thread ;)

Nick

dnottis

07-03-2006, 07:41 PM

Wrong, according to xbit labs a x1800xt pulls around 119 watts.

I contacted ATI directly for a review we were working on (4 GPU block review), that information was provided by someone at ATI. Sorry - but its not wrong, they should've checked with ATI before posting incorrect information.

Without giving specifics - here is the exact copy of the email (names removed to protect the identies of those involved.

From : XXXXXX@ati.com
Sent : Thursday, March 2, 2006 3:36 PM
To : xxxxxx@xxxxxxx.com
Subject : RE: Information on wattage draw, X1800XT

136W max power draw at standard clock settings (i.e. 625e/750m),looping
3DMark at high ambient temperature for a prolonged period of time.

This is the full load scenario.

Actual customers would experience lower power dissipation because they
wouldn't be looping 3Dmark at 55 degrees. Even the most demanding games,
(e.g. far cry, doom, etc.) are significantly less stressful.

XXXXX

Blacklash

07-05-2006, 10:11 AM

There's one reason I love this 7950 GX2. System power draw @ load:

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/1869/powerload1am.gif

NickS

07-05-2006, 10:32 AM

For some reason I like components that draw a lot of power. It's cool :D

Riska

07-19-2006, 07:48 PM

I have a x1900xtx running 732/1720mhz in my Sn25p shuttle barebone and a xp4800x2 cpu running 2600mhz and 2x1gig pc3200 cas 22251t ram and 3x400gig seagates running in raid 0 and a plextor sata dvd burner and it has worked fine in over 8 months... and there is only a tiny 350watts psu in it and it never get farily hot...
and yes my atitool shows over 40amps drawn in full load..

Edit i can bench at 2795mhz cpu and 742/1790 but after a while my gfx locks up..

fhpchris

08-10-2006, 06:22 PM

Riska

08-12-2006, 12:29 PM

They do not drop very mucu under load..

***Deimos***

08-15-2006, 12:51 PM

isn't (ati tool reported amps x GPU volt) + 75W PCI-E slot = total power draw

i.e.

(1.5v gpu x 38amp ati tool) + 75W PCI-E = ~132W /12 = 11A on +12v rail

like Alexio, I agree.. that would be my best guess

you guys are reading too much into this atitool thingie. If you really want to measure wattage, hook up wattage measuring thingie between power supply and outlet. This would give you the total wattage of the system. For how much your X1900XT or whatever, uses alone, you'd need to compare results with really low power card like 7300GS.

Or you can do like xbitlabs, hook up shunt resistors to all the power contacts on PCIE as well as the extra power ocnnector, and measure the voltage drop across them and calculate the total wattage of the card from that.

As for how manny Amps etc.. you gotta be specific for which voltage line.
CPU can draw 60 even 70 Amps but its like 1.2-1.3V so its only like 90W. Put your hand near and its pretty hot.
PSU 12V line can supply up to 20 even 30A. which is like 300W+. Very very scorching hot.

In other words, Amperage alone doesn't tell you anything.