Core 2 Line? AMD's answer to Conroe

[Budwise]

according to firingsquad, AMD has in the works some kinda secret weapon to help fight Conroe. They referred to it as the Core 2 Line. Anyone heard of this before? Anyone here with an inside edge to give us little hint? Discuss...

http://firingsquad.com/hardware/amd_athlon_64_fx_62_5000/page4.asp

[Vapor]

The Core 2 line is Conroe. AMD plans to have something to compete with it in the short-term. No details are known publicly at this time.

[freeloader]

2mb of additional shared Z-Ram cache. That's the surprise. :D

Actually I believe it's a 3.4ghz 65nm part, possibly fabbed at Charter.

[EnJoY]

The Core 2 line is Conroe. AMD plans to have something to compete with it in the short-term. No details are known publicly at this time.

Conroe competition is K8L. And there is info known about this publicly: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=31761

[n91htmare]

according to firingsquad, AMD has in the works some kinda secret weapon to help fight Conroe. They referred to it as the Core 2 Line. Anyone heard of this before? Anyone here with an inside edge to give us little hint? Discuss...

http://firingsquad.com/hardware/amd_athlon_64_fx_62_5000/page4.asp

You misunderstood their statement.

"Conroe processors, now known as the Core 2 line. "

They are reffering to the Conroe which is now called Core 2 or Dual Core 2.

As far as AMD.. I'm guessing it's a move to 65nm but am not sure what else it would be.

[fhpchris]

Conroe competition is K8L. And there is info known about this publicly: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=31761

Anandtech said it WASNT K8L.

[IvanAndreevich]

2mb of additional shared Z-Ram cache. That's the surprise. :D

Actually I believe it's a 3.4ghz 65nm part, possibly fabbed at Charter.
I think in current plans, it's NOT Z-RAM. If it was Z-RAM, they'd make it 8-16MB because it's 5 times more dense.

[dinos22]

I think in current plans, it's NOT Z-RAM. If it was Z-RAM, they'd make it 8-16MB because it's 5 times more dense.
they are trying to reduce the size of the die at the same time

i shouldn't say this but damn i wish i had a fast forward button for a sneak peak at mid-07 early-08 heheh

[GoThr3k]

Actually I believe it's a 3.4ghz 65nm part
you are right :fact:

[savantu]

2mb of additional shared Z-Ram cache. That's the surprise. :D

Actually I believe it's a 3.4ghz 65nm part, possibly fabbed at Charter.

Chartred is doing cheap *ss Semprons on 90nm...:stick:

[K404]

you are right :fact:

proof ;)

Also...server or desktop? I guess server, but thats just me

single or dual-core?

:)

K

[GoThr3k]

cant find the link anymore :(
i read it somewhere, damnit, stupid memory
i dont know if its single or dual core, i presume single at that frequency, but it would be very nice seeing it on dualcore
i thought it was desktop chip, but really i dont remember it well

[dng]

I think the rumor you're referring to might be this from dailytech

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2489

I think this is AMD's answer to conroe. Rev. G on 65nm process and i hope AMD will add something else special to it :). this is a smart move on AMD to release it towards the end of the year. Intel might have better fabs to ramp up conroe, but i'm sure they won't flood the market with it.

[K404]

Another 6 months? I was hoping for something to be announced that was ready to go, which would have made for a nice surprise.

[zakelwe]

Anand indicates it will not interest everybody and it will be at the high end .. so my guess is simply an FX 64 or FX 66 at either 3 or 3.2Ghz depending on whether Core 2 duo sticks at 2.67 or not.

Regards

Andy

[widman]

if not interest everybody, it's probably clearspeed math-co.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060315-6392.html

[FireDragon]

Now that would sure be something...z-ram there is no need for it...a cpu dosnt need that much cache on it...and besides a64 wont benifit greatly from that much cache...well in that case it would with a math-co proc 8-16mb of cache would be insane. No matter what i think that AMD will release a chip to compete with conroe...either a single high-end chip(wic at this time looks like what will have to be done but it will have to be clocked at over 3.5-6) then if AMD does that Intel will ramp the speed of conroe up and just smash it down again....AMD will have to come out with something here soon as conroe is looking great! As i need a new mobo and ram right now DC is done (no not cpu) and a stick of my utt is dead so i might as well make the switch now...instead of staying with 939.

Dragon

[Mats]

Check out Dailytechs pic (http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/1535_large_65nm_amd_jprdmap.jpg), what's that under the text, beneath the L2 cache? Maybe the pic is a fake?
Besides, doesn't the two cores look a lot different from each other?
IIRC, earlier X2 cores have two almost identical cores...
Here's a Toledo core (http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/cpu/athlon64-x2/core-s.jpg).

[zir_blazer]

Maybe because it is a Single Core? :P Check the line that cuts the Cache L2 in the middle for each Core, there is only one on the 65nm Processor. The two "Purple blocks" are pretty similar bewthem the 65nm Core and an individual Core from a Toledo.

I think that AMD knows already that no one cares anymore if they got or not an A64 FX-64 ready that runs 200 MHz faster than the FX-62. They know that we're waiting a new architecture.

[Mats]

Maybe because it is a Single Core? :P
Yeah I thought about that too, but why are they showing a single core for the four new 65 nm dual cores?
Well... ...I guess you're right.

Somebody change the thread title pleease....:slap:

[charlie]

IMHO, AMD should "survive" the summer of Conroe by slashing 3200+/3500+/3700+/3800+ prices to T-bred B levels, like $60/$80/$100/$120.
Crank up revenue to fund 100% effort @.65nM new architecture.

Bottom line... business-wise AMD is going to have a "tough summer". They should acknowledge that and put all their eggs in the Conroe Competition basket.

AMD has done it before (K8) they can do it again.

[Budwise]

You misunderstood their statement.

"Conroe processors, now known as the Core 2 line. "

They are reffering to the Conroe which is now called Core 2 or Dual Core 2.

As far as AMD.. I'm guessing it's a move to 65nm but am not sure what else it would be.

ah yes, i misread the statement. They really could have worded it better... Thanks

[Eldonko]

IMHO, AMD should "survive" the summer of Conroe by slashing 3200+/3500+/3700+/3800+ prices to T-bred B levels, like $60/$80/$100/$120.
Crank up revenue to fund 100% effort @.65nM new architecture.

Bottom line... business-wise AMD is going to have a "tough summer". They should acknowledge that and put all their eggs in the Conroe Competition basket.

AMD has done it before (K8) they can do it again.QFT on that. AMD wont make a whole lot of $$ over the next few quarters but they will be back soon enough. Its all good though, competition = better stuff for us. :)

[crackhead2k]

This isnt AMD year guys ... Here an article on am2 a whole bunch of processers
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/23/amd_reinvents_itself/index.html

I got a whole bunch of links in another thread about AM2 if your still interested in buying the product..

I wish AMD the best of luck though, competition has to be around....
Seeing a price drop soon though...

[Zeus]

Tom has always been a little Intel biased but it's clear AMD has to change something.

[elec999]

What happened to Amd saying a while back, they got this new idea of making two cores, work as one. I am not sure exactly tho. Is there such a thing still coming.
Thanks

[GoThr3k]

that was going te be released with the K10
and this will be good AMD year if you ask me
large availability of conroe expected in august/september
i thought cheapest conroe was about 230$, right?
well guess what most people dont buy such "expensive" processors
its al about mainstream/low-end
do you really think AMD sells lots of FX-whatever or X2 4400+/4800+
NO
they sell a lot of X2 3800+/3200+ and 3500+
thats where the real money is
if you keep that in mind, AM2 is a wonderful socket
i see some noobs thinking, WAW DDR2 thats seems quite good over that old DDR1
the money isnt coming from high end mates
its the mainstream/low-end where the money is

[charlie]

that was going te be released with the K10
and this will be good AMD year if you ask me
large availability of conroe expected in august/september
i thought cheapest conroe was about 230$, right?
well guess what most people dont buy such "expensive" processors
its al about mainstream/low-end
do you really think AMD sells lots of FX-whatever or X2 4400+/4800+
NO
they sell a lot of X2 3800+/3200+ and 3500+
thats where the real money is
if you keep that in mind, AM2 is a wonderful socket
i see some noobs thinking, WAW DDR2 thats seems quite good over that old DDR1
the money isnt coming from high end mates
its the mainstream/low-end where the money is


Actually that's untrue,

The cheapest Dual Core Conroe will be like $250... the cheapest X2 is $300. Noone in their right mind will go for X2. AMD needs to slash X2 prices to start at $199 and even THEN, who'll buy it? AMD needs to IMMEDIATELY release AM2 stuff at higher clocks at lower prices. Their profit will tank, but that;s ok... keep revenues up for 6 months until a true "high performance" architecture can be released.

[ZX7891]

IMHO, AMD should "survive" the summer of Conroe by slashing 3200+/3500+/3700+/3800+ prices to T-bred B levels, like $60/$80/$100/$120.
Crank up revenue to fund 100% effort @.65nM new architecture.

Bottom line... business-wise AMD is going to have a "tough summer". They should acknowledge that and put all their eggs in the Conroe Competition basket.

AMD has done it before (K8) they can do it again.

QFT

If they slashed 3200+ prices to around $75 and sempron 3000+ M2 prices to around 50bucks, i would build 4-5 AMD rigs and just say screw conroe

AMD really should have cut some of their space filling processors...first off get rid of the single core 3800+'s, no one wants to pay 309 dollars for it. the semprons should start at 1.6ghz like they are only priced just dirt cheap and do some combos, so you can get a sempron 2600+ and mobo for AM2 for under 120bucks.
imo heres how the pricing shoul go and how amd should set up the cpu's, first off they gotta get rid of this 128k l2 bull, they cant compete against the celerons

sempy 2600+ 1.6ghz 256k l2 $52
sempy 2800+ 1.8ghz 256k L2 $59
sempy 3000+ 2ghz 256k l2 $66
sempy 3300+ 2.2ghz 512k l2 $79

a64 3200+ 2.4ghz 512k l2 $85
a64 3500+ 2.6ghz 512k l2 $94

x2 3800+ 2ghz 2x512k l2 $188
x2 4000+ 2g 2x1mb $ 210
X2 4200+ 2.2ghz 2x512 $243
x2 4400 2,4ghz 2x512 $ 289
X2 4600+ 2.4ghz 2x1m $318
x2 4800 2.6ghz 2x512 $368
X2 5000+ 2.6ghz $428
fx60 lite 2.8g 2x512k w/ unlcoked mutlis $ 480
FX-60 2x1mb $ 565


this probably isnt feasible for AMD but it is the only way to retain users

[charlie]

QFT

If they slashed 3200+ prices to around $75 and sempron 3000+ M2 prices to around 50bucks, i would build 4-5 AMD rigs and just say screw conroe

EXACTLY, and this is what would keep AMD revenue up over the summer til they get their new architecture out.

[Clairvoyant129]

QFT

If they slashed 3200+ prices to around $75 and sempron 3000+ M2 prices to around 50bucks, i would build 4-5 AMD rigs and just say screw conroe

AMD really should have cut some of their space filling processors...first off get rid of the single core 3800+'s, no one wants to pay 309 dollars for it. the semprons should start at 1.6ghz like they are only priced just dirt cheap and do some combos, so you can get a sempron 2600+ and mobo for AM2 for under 120bucks.
imo heres how the pricing shoul go and how amd should set up the cpu's, first off they gotta get rid of this 128k l2 bull, they cant compete against the celerons

sempy 2600+ 1.6ghz 256k l2 $52
sempy 2800+ 1.8ghz 256k L2 $59
sempy 3000+ 2ghz 256k l2 $66
sempy 3300+ 2.2ghz 512k l2 $79

a64 3200+ 2.4ghz 512k l2 $85
a64 3500+ 2.6ghz 512k l2 $94

x2 3800+ 2ghz 2x512k l2 $188
x2 4000+ 2g 2x1mb $ 210
X2 4200+ 2.2ghz 2x512 $243
x2 4400 2,4ghz 2x512 $ 289
X2 4600+ 2.4ghz 2x1m $318
x2 4800 2.6ghz 2x512 $368
X2 5000+ 2.6ghz $428
fx60 lite 2.8g 2x512k w/ unlcoked mutlis $ 480
FX-60 2x1mb $ 565


this probably isnt feasible for AMD but it is the only way to retain users


It makes sense but it won't happen.

[iboomalot]

WHY ????

AMD is still on the 3 yr hurt Intel did to itself.


They can milk current prices for 2 months and mid to late summer when Conroe hits drop prices 20% and the general public will be happy. When Conroe gets some advertising out and X-mas hits then AMD releases K8L to help even things up, all will be well.

AMD isn't getting me to switch to AM2 its just not worth it. When 65nm hits I will be either Conroe 6800 if any good OCing boards hit or K8L next spring.

Most buyers are still going off the last 3 yrs of domination and PressHot's poor rep.

Conroe won't fix that poor rep in a day just because its a great CPU.

[fhpchris]

WHY ????

AMD is still on the 3 yr hurt Intel did to itself.


They can milk current prices for 2 months and mid to late summer when Conroe hits drop prices 20% and the general public will be happy. When Conroe gets some advertising out and X-mas hits then AMD releases K8L to help even things up, all will be well.

AMD isn't getting me to switch to AM2 its just not worth it. When 65nm hits I will be either Conroe 6800 if any good OCing boards hit or K8L next spring.

Most buyers are still going off the last 3 yrs of domination and PressHot's poor rep.

Conroe won't fix that poor rep in a day just because its a great CPU.

Who has the WR @ 3d03 again :)

Conroe is fast, but not in retail, and it has alot of work to do.

[Clairvoyant129]

Who has the WR @ 3d03 again :)

Conroe is fast, but not in retail, and it has alot of work to do.


Care to explain what type "work" is needed to be done on the core micro architecture? Are Core 2 Duos not good enough for you? :)

[fhpchris]

Care to explain what type "work" is needed to be done on the core micro architecture? Are Core 2 Duos not good enough for you? :)

1) 4P+ server segment slower than AMD.
2)

The Athlon 64 seems to have a small advantage when it comes to calculating addresses: it has 3 AGU compared to Core's 2.
AMD is 20% faster in Hexus Crypto!
3) Core's dual core perfomance is also lacking compared to AMD. Dual SPI 32m takes like 3 minutes longer than single LOL!
4) Who is ahead in 3d06/3d03?
5) retail ever? I wana buy one like you :D

Core does not have things to fix, so much as Intel's reputation to fix. Core needs to show the average consumer that it is faster, and they probably do not Play Super PI ;)

[Clairvoyant129]

1)
AMD is 20% faster in Hexus Crypto!
4) Who is ahead in 3d06/3d03?

Not for long lol.

[[XC] leviathan18]

as far as i have seen the amd plataform is cheaper am2 cpu am2 mobo....

[Turtle 1]

cant find the link anymore :(
i read it somewhere, damnit, stupid memory
i dont know if its single or dual core, i presume single at that frequency, but it would be very nice seeing it on dualcore
i thought it was desktop chip, but really i dont remember it well
Ya I read it last week 3.2 &3.4 GHz . I believe it was single core on 90nm. My memory is as bad as yours . I will try to find it.

[fhpchris]

Not for long lol.

It is nice to see a more even fight, I think we all benfit.

[Turtle 1]

Here's what I found

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=31729:stick: Wrong link sorry be right back. Thats amazing same link but this time it links to what were looking for LOL I bet that dam stick is screwing with me. That little stick is a devilish guy . Little smarty panc smily.



http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=31729

[cky2k6]

guys, amd makes its money with low end chips and servers. they kind of admitted in a interview with ruiz a while ago that they just dont care as much about the enthusiasts as much as the joe sixpacks and the business customers. thats the bottomline, they just dont care. it will not be like tbred times cause opteron will not fall in sales as its established, and emachines cant give a :banana::banana::banana::banana: less what cpu they use, as long as its cheap. amd will cut prices, but its a mistake to think amd will be back to selling mid range chips for under 100. they dont need to, as they have a rep and, again, businesses will trust opteron more than woodcrest at launch, and when woodcrest gets trust, k8l will be out for the servers, and it will be on the same platform so theres not going to be any apprehensions like with woodcrest's new chipset. amd knows what it has been doing for 3 years, so i doubt they plan on loosing money.

[fhpchris]

guys, amd makes its money with low end chips and servers. they kind of admitted in a interview with ruiz a while ago that they just dont care as much about the enthusiasts as much as the joe sixpacks and the business customers. thats the bottomline, they just dont care. it will not be like tbred times cause opteron will not fall in sales as its established, and emachines cant give a :banana::banana::banana::banana: less what cpu they use, as long as its cheap. amd will cut prices, but its a mistake to think amd will be back to selling mid range chips for under 100. they dont need to, as they have a rep and, again, businesses will trust opteron more than woodcrest at launch, and when woodcrest gets trust, k8l will be out for the servers, and it will be on the same platform so theres not going to be any apprehensions like with woodcrest's new chipset. amd knows what it has been doing for 3 years, so i doubt they plan on loosing money.

Then mabye its time for FCG to arrange a E6700 group buy ^^

[GoThr3k]

Actually that's untrue,

The cheapest Dual Core Conroe will be like $250... the cheapest X2 is $300. Noone in their right mind will go for X2. AMD needs to slash X2 prices to start at $199 and even THEN, who'll buy it? AMD needs to IMMEDIATELY release AM2 stuff at higher clocks at lower prices. Their profit will tank, but that;s ok... keep revenues up for 6 months until a true "high performance" architecture can be released.
that only seems logically
they will cut prices, but not now, they still have the performance crown, so why cut prices?
i think they can go way higher than 2.8ghz
checking out the overclocking results, i think yields are very good and they can easily scale to 3 ghz or more

[Vapor]

1) 4P+ server segment slower than AMD.
2)

AMD is 20% faster in Hexus Crypto!
3) Core's dual core perfomance is also lacking compared to AMD. Dual SPI 32m takes like 3 minutes longer than single LOL!
4) Who is ahead in 3d06/3d03?
5) retail ever? I wana buy one like you :D

Core does not have things to fix, so much as Intel's reputation to fix. Core needs to show the average consumer that it is faster, and they probably do not Play Super PI ;)1) Got definitive proof? Woodcrest's full chipset architecture hasn't been brought to light yet. Not only that, but even at Netburst efficiency, the processors are THAT much faster and aren't nearly as bandwidth hungry that it still has more than a fighting chance.

2) Yes, AMD wins a test...probably also WinRAR.....so that's two? Everywhere is saying that these sets of processors won't have what it takes to compete with Conroe, that's what this speculative thread is for...two places HAVE alluded to something coming in June that will appeal to the high-end and be a filler until K8L comes.

3) Compare dual core to dual core performance (Intel vs. AMD, or AM2 vs. S939, or Conroe vs. Netburst, etc.)....Conroe is the winner, AMD wants to fill that gap in June......btw, it's incredible single core performance is just a bonus ;)

4) Let's wait for someone to put the cards on some decent cooling while using Conroe....AM2's shown a very strong early hand with KP's 03 WR, but those card clocks were just AMAZING!

5) Yes, Conroe hasn't been released to retail yet, and as of 24 hours ago, neither had AM2 :p:


People just gotta realize that AMD knows they're fighting uphill right now.

AM2 is a solid performer, and a very good OCer....it has its problems, but it's young and was mainly just a first attempt at a DDR2 controller. They have K8L down the road, but who knows what Intel will do in the meantime and it's not ground that AMD wants to lose anyway....this will be interesting to see what kind of countermeasures they take to keep revenue up. As much as I'd like to see prices plummet, they probably won't for the chips most of us care about (dual core) due to manufacturing and testing costs being VERY high for dual core...close to wholesale price, actually.

[zakelwe]

4) Who is ahead in 3d06/3d03?


What, you mean the two which are least cpu intensive ? :confused:


Regards

Andy

[Kjaks]

Now that would sure be something...z-ram there is no need for it...a cpu dosnt need that much cache on it...and besides a64 wont benifit greatly from that much cache...well in that case it would with a math-co proc 8-16mb of cache would be insane. No matter what i think that AMD will release a chip to compete with conroe...either a single high-end chip(wic at this time looks like what will have to be done but it will have to be clocked at over 3.5-6) then if AMD does that Intel will ramp the speed of conroe up and just smash it down again....AMD will have to come out with something here soon as conroe is looking great! As i need a new mobo and ram right now DC is done (no not cpu) and a stick of my utt is dead so i might as well make the switch now...instead of staying with 939.

Dragon


Z-RAM use 5 times less space on the die, which means that they can still use the same amount of cache, but produce more cores per wafer than before. That saves a lot of money and improves yields. It's not always about performance you know..

[Kjaks]

AMD is 20% faster in Hexus Crypto!
3) Core's dual core perfomance is also lacking compared to AMD. Dual SPI 32m takes like 3 minutes longer than single LOL!

Core needs to show the average consumer that it is faster, and they probably do not Play Super PI ;)

And who is the Hexus Crypto nerd? Is it you? :) Then buy the cpu that's better at it!

3) Do you know why? It's because of the smart cache function, and It saves a lot of power because cache needs a lot. One core gets 4MB, two get 2MB each. And from what I see it still scales good from one to two cores in cinebench (Conroe x1.84, A64 x1.88.)

[gullf1sk]

Who has the WR @ 3d03 again :)

Conroe is fast, but not in retail, and it has alot of work to do.

Didnt coolaler run 03 on a SLI thing? I thought the SLI for intel was a bootleg fix. What do you think will happen when SLI is supported out of the box on those intel boards?

[perkam]

I guess waiting for 65nm before going conroe might be a wise decision, knowing AMD that is.

But for some reason a cloud of uncertainty is over AMD's plans, espeically with lackluster launch of AM2.

Perkam

[gullf1sk]

I guess waiting for 65nm before going conroe might be a wise decision, knowing AMD that is.

But for some reason a cloud of uncertainty is over AMD's plans, espeically with lackluster launch of AM2.

Perkam

Yup that seems like a good idea.
Dont think i can hold my breath untill AMD can come up with something tho, my Northwood 3ghz is getting tired :P