XtremeSystems Forums

Go Back   XtremeSystems Forums > Cooling > Air Cooling

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 05-23-2008, 06:57 PM   #1
Vapor
Admin
 
Vapor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 11,782
Fan Filter Airflow Compared

Alright, have been meaning to test this since Round 1 of my fan testing, but kept forgetting/didn't want to do it when I remembered.

Well, been getting started on Round 3 of my fan testing and was reminded of this.

So I bought all the fan filters available from Petras and put them to the testbed. I have no explanation of any of the data yet, I usually put a day (or a couple months in the case of Round 2 fans) between testing and publishing to ponder/rest/graph/etc. This data is less than an hour old at the time of writing. And I expected almost none of it. This is my first time with a few of the fans too...so surprises all around!

All filters were tested in pull (since who puts fan filters on their exhaust?).

Fan selection was based on a desire to have:
1) A wide range of RPM overall
2) A variety of fans at similar RPM

I have no intention of doing a dust test...just no good and controlled way to do it Also, no ghetto stuff yet, maybe that'll come with time or when I figure out a dust test I like.

The fans:
AeroCool Turbine (950RPM)
Noctua P12 (1300RPM)
Yate Loon D12SL-12 (1350RPM)
Slip Stream M (1200RPM)
S-Flex G (1900RPM)
Panaflo U1C (2750RPM)

The Fan Filters:
"Wire Grille" - Click
"Metal Mesh" - Click
"Plastic Mesh" - Click
"Blue Thing" - Click
"MCR120" - Click

Pretty graphs:
All the airflow data:
see below

Airflow data of the ~50CFM fans (so it's easier to see)
see below

Airflow loss as a percentage, compared to open-air
see below


Words from me:
I have little explanation for why the wire grille is restricting airflow so much. In fact, I just included it as a control of sorts. I'm also very surprised that some of the filters are as restrictive or more restrictive than the radiator (depending on fan). The variance from fan to fan is also a bit of a puzzle.

I hate to hit it and quit it, but I have to run now. More from me later (tomorrow likely).

EDIT: redid all testing on a different testbed (the one I plan to use for Round 3 of my fan roundup) and no longer had any sort of airleak issues and now have much cleaner (and better, IMO) data. See below for new graphs.
__________________
Current Waterblock Testing
Roundup #2: Overall Comparison Thread, Alphacool Livingstone, Alphacool Niagara, Alphacool Yellowstone, D-Tek Fuzion V2, EK Supreme, EK Supreme LT, Enzotech Sapphire Rev A., Heatkiller 3.0 LC, Heatkiller 3.0 LT, Koolance CPU-345, Koolance CPU-350, Phobya, Swiftech Apogee GTZ, Swiftech Apogee GTZ SE, Swiftech Apogee XT

Last edited by Vapor; 05-25-2008 at 03:11 PM. Reason: edit
Vapor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2008, 07:58 PM   #2
geisher
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Quebec,Canada
Posts: 27
Nice job Vapor. Good information, thanks a lot man .
__________________

CPU: Intel Conroe E6600@3.6GHz<>1.50vcore <> Scythe Infinity
RAM: 2GB GSkill HZ 6400
MoBo: Asus P5W DH Deluxe
GFX: 3850_512<> 2007WFP
PSU: PC&P 750W
SB X-Fi Platinium
Lian Li PC7-B
geisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2008, 08:14 PM   #3
Ashraf
Royal Administrator
 
Ashraf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York City
Posts: 3,206
Many thanks for this, Eric!
Ashraf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2008, 09:44 PM   #4
TedShred
don't taze me bro
 
TedShred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Canada, by the mountains
Posts: 938
Thanks for your efforts, Vapor. That's great info. What an eye-opener on the restirction by mere wire grills. You've removed any doubt I had about chopping out the meshed fan holes in my case.

edit: really gotta wonder about the flow from this TT1200W psu. Big fan, but the air has to go through slots cut into the psu and then the fan hole mesh.
__________________
Time is an illusion. Lunchtime, doubly so. Douglas Adams
QX9650 @ 3825mhz CoolIT FZone
2x HD3870X2 @ 845/946mhz air
Asus Maximus Formula 0907
2x2048mb OCZ Reaper 8500
2x Raptor 150G Raid0; 'Cuda 1000G
1200W Thermaltake
xFi Extreme Gamer/ Z-5500
Vista Ult. 64
Cosmos 1000
30" NEC

Last edited by TedShred; 05-24-2008 at 10:32 AM.
TedShred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2008, 02:44 AM   #5
XtremeTiramisu
Xtreme Enthusiast
 
XtremeTiramisu's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Richmond (GVA), BC, Canada
Posts: 539
Excellent review with professionally done comparason charts.
The metal mesh will be my best pick for the best dust filteration performance to least amount of air flow reduction ratio.
__________________
Xtreme Air-Cooled OC System:
Mobo: Asus Rampage Formula (X38 Edition) Rev 1.03G (BIOS: 0803)
CPU: C2Q Q6600 "G0" L723A765, VID 1.2625, 3720mhz, FSB 465*8, Vcore: 1.464, Idle/load temp: 31c/64c
CPU Heatsink: Thermalright Ultra120 Xtreme lapped (2* Scythe S-Flex SFF21F S-FDB 120mm Push-Pull configuration)
RAM: Kingston HyperX T1 2x2GB PC2-8500 (DDR2-1116)(5-5-5-15-3-52-6-3-8-3-5-4-6-4-6-14-5-1-5-5)(2.264 Vdimm)(Rated @ 2.3v default clock)
HDD: Western Digital Caviar Black 640GB WD6401AALS-00L3B (AHCI)
Video Card: XFX 8800GTS 320mb Xtreme, Core 612 Shader 1420 Mem 900 (Stock cooling)
Sound Card: Auzentech Meridian 7.1 (8788 chipset)
DVD: Pioneer 212D SATA DVD-RW
PSU: Corsair HX620W Modular
Xtreme Air Cooled Case: Antec 900 case | 3*120mm intake | 1*120mm & 1*200mm exhuast
OS: Vista Ultimate x64 SP1 Build 6001
XtremeTiramisu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2008, 07:25 AM   #6
Ar3s
Xtreme Enthusiast
 
Ar3s's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Posts: 655
Send a message via Skype™ to Ar3s
Totally confusing since my silverstone tj-09 casing metal mesh doesn't kill airflow that much & fan grills, now thats interesting.
__________________
Everyday is a NiceDay
Ar3s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2008, 12:13 PM   #7
Vapor
Admin
 
Vapor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 11,782
I'm redoing this on a different testbed...found out I was having problems with airleaks on at least the "Wire Grille" and the "Blue Thing". The results were repeatable (I ran each test twice since the numbers were looking funny and some even non-sensical), but looking back, that only really meant that the airleaks were repeatable and had repeatable impacts on measurement.

Testbed will also be the one for Roundup 3 (the box CyberDruid built), rather than the one from Roundups 1/2 (which I used two nights ago). Open air and radiator numbers (and metal mesh and plastic mesh even) shouldn't change outside of the margin of error.
__________________
Current Waterblock Testing
Roundup #2: Overall Comparison Thread, Alphacool Livingstone, Alphacool Niagara, Alphacool Yellowstone, D-Tek Fuzion V2, EK Supreme, EK Supreme LT, Enzotech Sapphire Rev A., Heatkiller 3.0 LC, Heatkiller 3.0 LT, Koolance CPU-345, Koolance CPU-350, Phobya, Swiftech Apogee GTZ, Swiftech Apogee GTZ SE, Swiftech Apogee XT
Vapor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2008, 12:35 PM   #8
Vapor
Admin
 
Vapor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 11,782
Oh, and my theory as to why the leaks effected the low pressure fans the least is because they simply didn't have the power to pull any significant amount of air through the leak. Still collecting more data on the new testbed, don't have much of a picture yet, so maybe the data is repeating itself, haven't done open-air numbers yet
__________________
Current Waterblock Testing
Roundup #2: Overall Comparison Thread, Alphacool Livingstone, Alphacool Niagara, Alphacool Yellowstone, D-Tek Fuzion V2, EK Supreme, EK Supreme LT, Enzotech Sapphire Rev A., Heatkiller 3.0 LC, Heatkiller 3.0 LT, Koolance CPU-345, Koolance CPU-350, Phobya, Swiftech Apogee GTZ, Swiftech Apogee GTZ SE, Swiftech Apogee XT
Vapor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2008, 12:54 PM   #9
Vapor
Admin
 
Vapor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 11,782
Yay for triple posting....

(don't worry guys, I'll go lower my post count )

Anyway, for the "Metal Mesh" filter...do people mount that on the outside or inside of the case?

That is:
1) FILTER | CASE PANEL | FAN
or
2) CASE PANEL | FILTER | FAN

I know how the rest get mounted, but this one seems to be able to go both ways, not sure which people do more.
__________________
Current Waterblock Testing
Roundup #2: Overall Comparison Thread, Alphacool Livingstone, Alphacool Niagara, Alphacool Yellowstone, D-Tek Fuzion V2, EK Supreme, EK Supreme LT, Enzotech Sapphire Rev A., Heatkiller 3.0 LC, Heatkiller 3.0 LT, Koolance CPU-345, Koolance CPU-350, Phobya, Swiftech Apogee GTZ, Swiftech Apogee GTZ SE, Swiftech Apogee XT
Vapor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2008, 02:23 PM   #10
it_burns_when_i_pee
Xtreme Enthusiast
 
it_burns_when_i_pee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: South Wales
Posts: 654
i've been saying for a while how much grills can restrict airflow. you need only place your hand 6 inches infront of your face and blow, introducing the grill in between every now and then. its so noticeable

glad you got this up vapour. loads will benefit from it
__________________

"Never under estimate the predictability of stupidity"


=======
Q6600 @ 3.6 / TRUE (both lapped)
P5Q Deluxe
4Gb Corsair DominatRIX 1066Mhz
1Gb HD 4870 + HR03-GT
2 x 320gb WD3200AAKS RAID-0
Thermaltake Toughpower 850
X-Fi Fatality / SR-71 Amp > Sennheiser HD650's & Logitech Z-5500
HP W2207 TFT

and me??? Powered by absolut, kebabs, tramadol & a new liver
it_burns_when_i_pee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2008, 03:07 PM   #11
Vapor
Admin
 
Vapor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 11,782
Okay, new data...doesn't say much different in the grand scheme of things, but I feel a lot better about it now.





__________________
Current Waterblock Testing
Roundup #2: Overall Comparison Thread, Alphacool Livingstone, Alphacool Niagara, Alphacool Yellowstone, D-Tek Fuzion V2, EK Supreme, EK Supreme LT, Enzotech Sapphire Rev A., Heatkiller 3.0 LC, Heatkiller 3.0 LT, Koolance CPU-345, Koolance CPU-350, Phobya, Swiftech Apogee GTZ, Swiftech Apogee GTZ SE, Swiftech Apogee XT
Vapor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2008, 03:33 PM   #12
Tonucci
Xtreme Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,032
I always wondered about how filters impact airflow...Thank you !
Tonucci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2008, 05:16 PM   #13
XS_RoB
Xtreme Member
 
XS_RoB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 213
Yes - a big thank you! Thanks for taking the time to be thorough and explaining your test methods! It is greatly appreciated.
XS_RoB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2008, 06:26 PM   #14
MpG
Xtreme Addict
 
MpG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,195
Very interesting. Surprising that some of those metal meshs were less restrictive than the radiator, but go figure.

Also surprising about the respective fan performances of the 50cfm group. I assume those are Petra YL's? Based on other reviews I've seen (as well as personal experience) I would have expected the P-12's to edge ahead of the YL's and the Slipstream. And if I'm not mistaken, in one of your fan reviews, you mentioned that you wouldn't expect particularly good performance of the Slipstreams under restriction. Any ideas?
__________________
i7 920 | Foxconn Bloodrage | GTX280 | Corsair DDR3-1600 2x3GB
MpG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2008, 06:36 PM   #15
Vapor
Admin
 
Vapor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 11,782
Honestly, I was surprised to see any of the filters being more restrictive than the radiator. I've always just thought a radiator is the most restrictive thing you could throw at a fan

Yeah, that D12SL-12 is a PTS Yate. I expected the P12 to be better than it was as well--and the Slip Stream to be worse (well, a couple weeks ago I expected it to be worse--when I first received my fans, I put the Slip Stream SH up against the S-Flex G and realized the Slip Streams actually weren't so bad on a radiator for just raw airflow). The Slip Stream is easily the loudest of the three, however. Frankly, I have no explanation for the P12's performance. I'm shocked it performs poorly on the radiator--maybe it's just a bad pull fan? Will try push shortly I guess.

Then again, Petra's Yates are excellent radiator performers. They're almost competitive with 38mm thick Panaflos in terms of airflow loss--no easy feat. I didn't expect either the P12 or the Slip Stream to match it, but I certainly didn't expect the P12 to lag behind the Slip Stream. Oh well.
__________________
Current Waterblock Testing
Roundup #2: Overall Comparison Thread, Alphacool Livingstone, Alphacool Niagara, Alphacool Yellowstone, D-Tek Fuzion V2, EK Supreme, EK Supreme LT, Enzotech Sapphire Rev A., Heatkiller 3.0 LC, Heatkiller 3.0 LT, Koolance CPU-345, Koolance CPU-350, Phobya, Swiftech Apogee GTZ, Swiftech Apogee GTZ SE, Swiftech Apogee XT
Vapor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2008, 07:30 PM   #16
Vapor
Admin
 
Vapor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 11,782
Okay, retesting the three ~50CFM fans on the radiator now...Yate Loon and Slip Stream haven't changed at all, but the P12 is now doing 36.6CFM pull (26.7% loss) and 40.8CFM in push.

Moves it ahead of the Slip Stream @ 34.65CFM, but still behind the D12SL-12 @ 38.78CFM.

No clue why the P12 was bad (@ 33CFM) before--it doesn't seem to be a finicky fan and nothing has changed in my environment, not even temperature. No clue what happened

Graphs updated.
__________________
Current Waterblock Testing
Roundup #2: Overall Comparison Thread, Alphacool Livingstone, Alphacool Niagara, Alphacool Yellowstone, D-Tek Fuzion V2, EK Supreme, EK Supreme LT, Enzotech Sapphire Rev A., Heatkiller 3.0 LC, Heatkiller 3.0 LT, Koolance CPU-345, Koolance CPU-350, Phobya, Swiftech Apogee GTZ, Swiftech Apogee GTZ SE, Swiftech Apogee XT
Vapor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2008, 08:00 PM   #17
Xel'Naga
Xtreme Member
 
Xel'Naga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 284
Vapor, it would be a lot better to group the graphs by the fans, not the filters, IMHO. We could see the results a lot better.
Like this:
Fan1(open)/Fan1(wire grill)/Fan1(some filter)------Fan2(open)/Fan2(wire grill)/Fan2(some filter)

Also I was really surprised by how much restriction a wire grill has. I was expecting almost the same performance as open gap
__________________
PC: none at the moment
Lappy: Dell Latitude D520
CPU: Core Duo T2300E 1.66GHz
RAM: 1 Gb generic
VGA: Intel 950 gma
HDD: 60 GB Hitachi 5400 rpm + 250 GB Phillips external
Mouse: Razer Lachesis
Mousepad: Razer Mantis
Headphones: AKG K701 + LittleDot MK II + Behringer U Control UCA202
OSes: Fedora 9 - work || XP-games (only DOTA)
Additional cooling: seated on cigarette packs with custom made USB powered fan
Xel'Naga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2008, 08:06 PM   #18
Vapor
Admin
 
Vapor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 11,782
Ask and ye shall receive:

All fans:


50CFM fans:


Percentage loss:
__________________
Current Waterblock Testing
Roundup #2: Overall Comparison Thread, Alphacool Livingstone, Alphacool Niagara, Alphacool Yellowstone, D-Tek Fuzion V2, EK Supreme, EK Supreme LT, Enzotech Sapphire Rev A., Heatkiller 3.0 LC, Heatkiller 3.0 LT, Koolance CPU-345, Koolance CPU-350, Phobya, Swiftech Apogee GTZ, Swiftech Apogee GTZ SE, Swiftech Apogee XT
Vapor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2008, 08:13 PM   #19
Xel'Naga
Xtreme Member
 
Xel'Naga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vapor View Post
Ask and ye shall receive
Holy , you are fast
__________________
PC: none at the moment
Lappy: Dell Latitude D520
CPU: Core Duo T2300E 1.66GHz
RAM: 1 Gb generic
VGA: Intel 950 gma
HDD: 60 GB Hitachi 5400 rpm + 250 GB Phillips external
Mouse: Razer Lachesis
Mousepad: Razer Mantis
Headphones: AKG K701 + LittleDot MK II + Behringer U Control UCA202
OSes: Fedora 9 - work || XP-games (only DOTA)
Additional cooling: seated on cigarette packs with custom made USB powered fan
Xel'Naga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2008, 08:14 PM   #20
64dragon
Xtreme Cruncher
 
64dragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA, USA
Posts: 1,473
Send a message via AIM to 64dragon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vapor View Post
Yay for triple posting....

(don't worry guys, I'll go lower my post count )

Anyway, for the "Metal Mesh" filter...do people mount that on the outside or inside of the case?

That is:
1) FILTER | CASE PANEL | FAN
or
2) CASE PANEL | FILTER | FAN

I know how the rest get mounted, but this one seems to be able to go both ways, not sure which people do more.
i use #1

thank you for you time and effort, these results are very good to know. i'd love to know how restrictive the mesh on my tj07 is or on a rad grill
__________________
XS WCG Rules: #1: don't pull fart_plume's finger #2: Dave aka Movieman, don't give him your phone number if you like your hearing
XS WCG Note: There are 2 sets of points, WCG and Boinc. WCG = 7x Boinc

Project: Dark Matter (<- link) - Asus Maximus II Formula, Intel X3330 3.9ghz @1.32v under load, corsair dominator ddr2 1066 4gigs, evga gtx260 core 216, pc p&c 750W, TRUE Black, Lian Li v1200b

silverstone tj07 build log

64dragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2008, 08:19 PM   #21
Vapor
Admin
 
Vapor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 11,782
I figured most did #1 so that's what I tested with. They're probably both really similar...maybe even zero
__________________
Current Waterblock Testing
Roundup #2: Overall Comparison Thread, Alphacool Livingstone, Alphacool Niagara, Alphacool Yellowstone, D-Tek Fuzion V2, EK Supreme, EK Supreme LT, Enzotech Sapphire Rev A., Heatkiller 3.0 LC, Heatkiller 3.0 LT, Koolance CPU-345, Koolance CPU-350, Phobya, Swiftech Apogee GTZ, Swiftech Apogee GTZ SE, Swiftech Apogee XT
Vapor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2008, 10:32 PM   #22
Ar3s
Xtreme Enthusiast
 
Ar3s's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Posts: 655
Send a message via Skype™ to Ar3s
slip stream doesn't like the plastic mesh but works great with metal and blue thingie... thats interesting. Always knew the Yate loons were awesome fans but this is mind blowing.

makes the p12 fan seem horrible for a push pull config on a cooler doesn't it ?
__________________
Everyday is a NiceDay
Ar3s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2008, 07:16 AM   #23
[XC] NetburstXE
Xtreme Cruncher
 
[XC] NetburstXE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: C:\WINDOWS\system32\
Posts: 1,459
Awesome work Vapor, thanks for the tests.
[XC] NetburstXE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2008, 09:59 AM   #24
dA_PhReAk
Registered User
 
dA_PhReAk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Portugal
Posts: 72
Great Job! I was always curious how my "metal mash" would affect the airflow.

(And answering to your question: i use it on the outside of the case)
__________________
920D w/ Xigmatek s1283 @ 4.1Ghz
Asus P5WD2
Gskill La Series 4200 DDR2 2x1Gb
XFX 9600GT w/ Artic Cooling s1 rev2 + NB XL2
Samsung Sata II 250Gb
Audigy 2 ZS
LC Power Green 550w
dA_PhReAk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2008, 09:02 AM   #25
zepper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 36
I thought fan restriction operated on the inverse square law, i.e. twice the distance - 1/4 the restriction.

Thanks for the test data. I've been using the 3-piece plastic on the basis that they would do better over time in a dusty environment, IOW they wouldn't clog up enough to affect performance as quickly as the other designs and would be more effective (how long until a noticeable buildup inside the machine - another aspect of filters available for testing ;-) . Also be aware that the plastic, 3-piece jobs can come with two different porosities of filter material (see the Mouser catalog).
. Perhaps when you get some time you could investigate the clogging rate aspect of filters, Vapor.

Here is a random datum for you: the metal "mesh" on the front of the fan holder in the Silverstone Kublai cases drops the fan RPM about 100. My "mesh" grows an intolerable skin of dust in a week or so. I don't mind that when I replace the "mesh" front with one of the plastic filters as it is supposed to collect dust...

.bh.
zepper is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
XtremeSystems